Transcript

Lisa Virtue [00:00:05]:

Welcome to her career studio, the podcast where we navigate the intersection of work and life crafted especially for you, the professional woman. I'm Lisa Virtue, your host, a certified career coach, and I have over two decades of leadership experience under my belt. But more than that, I'm someone who believes passionately in the power of thriving at work so that we can thrive in life because both matter and both are intertwined. Check out hercareerstudio.com for free resources to help you land that ideal job, thrive at work, and ultimately thrive in life. In today's episode, my guest Jessica Stepanovic, a writer and podcast host, joins us to give us tips on how to go beyond the drink when it comes to work events. And anytime you feel pressured to have alcohol and you just don't want it or you're trying to live a sober lifestyle, Jessica has over 18 years of sobriety, living her best life out loud. She has an upcoming memoir, in progress and authors. Three, two, one.

Lisa Virtue [00:01:03]:

On a personal note newsletter. She's also the voice behind the Sober Living Stories podcast. Her mission is to shine a spotlight on individuals who have experienced incredible transformation in their lives and spends her free time helping other women entrepreneurs chase down their dreams. Check out today's episode and get tangible tips for how to say no to those alcoholic drinks. Jessica, thank you so much for coming and speaking to the audience about your story and talking through we're going to talk beyond the drink, balancing sobriety and social expectations at work. Such a hot topic, especially for those of us, like my listeners, that want not just a good life at work and a good career, but a life at home in a personal life that is sustainable. So why don't we just start with having you tell us a little bit about you and your story and your journey.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:01:53]:

Sure. Well, thank you for having me. My name is Jessica Stapanovic. I am a writer and the host of the Sober Living Stories podcast and also a mom of three. And we run a business here locally and my husband and I, so we have a full life. And yeah, I'll start a little bit about how I came up with the sober living stories title and that could tell you a little bit about my story and how I got here and I came up with that title. A lot of people who are writers may or may not know that when you want to write a book, what's just as important as actually writing a book is creating a platform from which that message can reach the world. And I didn't realize that, and I've learned that along the way and I decided to create the podcast to support the message of my memoir, which speaks about me overcoming alcoholism in my early twenty s.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:02:56]:

And so I did that. And what came from it is not just to support the memoir, but I have so many guests on that share their life and how they overcame challenges, specifically in the area of addiction, whether it be food or sugar or alcohol or money, and have come out a better version of themselves by putting down a habit that was inhibiting their growth and their life progress. And it's been absolutely incredible.

Lisa Virtue [00:03:29]:

Amazing. Another addiction that just popped to my mind is social media and being on devices.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:03:35]:

So all this x principles apply, all the same principles. So, for myself, when I was about 19, I knew that I was going to write a book. I always wanted to, and my life kind of took a different turn. And so I had spent the next decade kind of lost and just navigating, not quite accomplishing what I had set out to do. I grew up in a home that said, you can do and be anything you want to be. My mom and dad were very college oriented, and education and chase your dream and you can do it. And it just got interrupted, and I didn't quite know how to get it back. But just to fast forward, what ended up happening was alcoholism became part of my story.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:04:29]:

I didn't have anyone around me who suffered from that or anyone around me who had recovered from it. So I didn't really know what I was looking at. I just know that I had gone to that enough times where it had physically changed me. And so when we talk about sobriety, there's a lot of talk now about being alcohol free and California sober and sobriety. And so, for me, sobriety is the real foundation. And what is that, the touchstone? Or it's just the foundation from which everything good returned to my life. When I realized that that's what the problem was, because for so many years, I thought, well, I'm just sad, or I'm just depressed, or I have anxiety, or I can't get back on track. And what the truth was is that I had already crossed over.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:05:30]:

And so for me, sobriety, it was like a life saving endeavor. So there's that life saving sobriety, which people who are in recovery understand. It made me become a better everything. So, for me, that was my solution, was to get sober. I was a better daughter, I was a better sister, a better friend, a better wife. I'm now a good mom. So I have to maintain that in order to live right and keep progressing forward. Now, for some people who want to make a lifestyle change and put down alcohol for wellness or health, I commend that, too.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:06:14]:

And all the strategies how we navigate a drinking world apply across the board. Whether it's like a life saving mission or it's a positive life change. Putting down alcohol is difficult, yet incredibly useful for so many people, for so many different reasons. But we live in a drinking world, so how do we do that? And how do we do it successfully?

Lisa Virtue [00:06:37]:

Yes, it's so true. So in the corporate world, and I'll tell a little bit about my story, too. There's so much pressure when it comes to career progression, even with, oh, let's go out for some drinks. And sometimes that's where the real conversation happens. Or for women in particular, it's, why aren't you drinking? Are you pregnant? And then there's all a slew of rumor mill that might come from that, that a lot of women don't want to deal with. So I've seen it firsthand for sure. With, even if someone is not battling alcoholism, maybe it is. Like you mentioned, they're looking to just slow down on the drinking, or it's for their wellness.

Lisa Virtue [00:07:14]:

Or as women reach a certain age, alcohol affects our hormones even worse. I'm curious, have you had examples? What kind of examples or stories do you have that talk about going out for drinks and that awkwardness that can happen when we decline the drink?

Jessica Stipanovic [00:07:35]:

Yeah, and I love how you said that's where the real conversation happens, because a lot of times it does. It's the after hours. It's where everybody lets their shoulders drop and they start to really talk. There's networking events. How do you navigate the business world alcohol free? It's like, as a woman or not, it's like, how do you get out there and be yourself without that liquid courage drink that you're used to relying on? And there's so many strategies. I know at first it seems like awkward and uncomfortable, but I think the most important thing is it really happens before you leave your house. With true alcoholism, it's an internal decision that you have to make. And with putting down alcohol and trying to just live an alcohol free lifestyle in a drinking world, it's the same thing.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:08:30]:

So for business professionals, women in particular, if they're out there in the business world, they have some sense of confidence about who they are, perhaps professionally. I think it's really important, I think of the seven habits of highly effective people. That book by Stephen Covey, I read it when I was younger, and he know, private victories precede public victories. So if I make a decision before I'm heading out to an evening where there's going to be drinking and I'm going to be know, somebody could say, well hey, I'm not drinking, I'm not a know I'm heading out and that internal decision is going to determine how you enter the event. You're already decided, you're leaving your home confidently, you're dressed professionally, and when you get there, the goal is when you're at a networking event, it's kind of like to take the ego out of it. It's not about what you're wearing or what you're going to drink. When you get there, it's like let's have a goal. Before we leave the house, I am going to network and meet three like minded women and exchange socials before I go home tonight.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:09:39]:

So when you get there, you have a mission and you have a goal. And it's not to how I'm going to decline the drink, but we can give some one liners for that too. But it's what am I going to do when I get there? What's my goal? To make my career advance that has nothing to do with alcohol. And secondly, I think that's important just before you leave the house to be pointed in your goal for the evening. And then too when you get there, I always like to have something in my hand already so nobody even has to ask me. I've already taken care of it. Go up to the bar, get a seltzer, cranberry seltzer with a lime and hold that in your hand. Don't put it down.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:10:24]:

So maybe you mistakenly pick up the wrong drink. Then the question doesn't even come up. So another thing too is these events maybe last 2 hours, 3 hours, bring your own car. Like figure out how you're going home because there's a certain shift in the energy when the night progresses and you can almost see it if you're watching and you're sober and you're clear, it just kind of shifts come around 10:00 and that's your cue to head out. You've probably done the important stuff. It's just going to get a little beyond after that and that's when you leave. So I always like to bring my own transportation, know how I'm getting there and I'm responsible for how I'm getting home.

Lisa Virtue [00:11:17]:

Great tip. I love that. So let's talk about when you don't have the drink in your hand. Maybe you arrive and someone's coming over. I can picture some people I worked with.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:11:29]:

Hey, you need a drink?

Lisa Virtue [00:11:30]:

Let's get you a drink. What do you. Jazz night. What would you recommend for the listeners about how to do a one liner or how to politely decline the alcohol drink?

Jessica Stipanovic [00:11:43]:

Well, there's a couple easy one liners. I'll start with the simplest, most direct one. Just, like, with a smile. No, thank you. Oh, no, thanks. I'm good. That's it. We tend to overthink it because most people I know, there's a group that'll be like, come on, come on.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:12:03]:

But if you just say, hey, no, thanks, I'm good. Or you can say, hey, I've got an early meeting in the morning. I'm not drinking tonight, or another one is, hey, I'm driving. I'm not drinking. I already had a drink. I'm good. Or you can just be honest and say, I've decided not to drink for 30 days, or whatever it is. But I think the less that you can overthink it, the more you can just put a smile on your face and redirect the conversation.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:12:31]:

After you've said your simple statement, most people will just move on to the next thing.

Lisa Virtue [00:12:39]:

Yeah. I come from a background in the private club athletic club industry, and as you can imagine, a lot of the clients and the board members, it was around events that had champagne or wine or beer. And so there was an expectation, not so much at the club I worked at with, but some of my colleagues where it was, oh, I have to entertain these people. I have to go out and do these things with them. And if they didn't, they had this perception that it would really harm their career and their career progression. And that was something that I think is fascinating to see generationally. There's a little bit of a shift, too, with this popularity or fads when it comes to health and wellness and a lot of non alcohol drinks that now have supplements, et cetera, vitamins. To shift that perspective and that culture, is there anything that you've been paying attention to out in the world with the fads and what you feel like could pick up and continue in the right direction in this regard, or is there any cautionary tales we should be mindful of with regard to that?

Jessica Stipanovic [00:13:49]:

Well, yeah, I think probably for the first decade of my sobriety, I really didn't have anything to do with mocktails or anything like that, which are really popular now. I mean, there's just bars that are alcohol free and that whole. And the reason I didn't choose to was because, like I said, my type of sobriety was the life saving sobriety. And so I didn't want to glamorize it. To me, it wasn't glamorous. I just kept it where it was, and I was okay with that. Just recently, I went on a seven day cruise. I had virgin pina coladas around the clock.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:14:30]:

I enjoyed myself. I loved it. But I'm in a different place now, and it was fun. But to me, yeah, I mean, if you're comfortable with that, but if you're not, then don't order them. They are available, though. Sometimes it's nice to have something when you're sitting there that mimics what everyone else is having. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it's up to the individual and the comfort level and to what degree your alcohol free journey looks like.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:15:00]:

If it's detrimental to that, then do away with it. Like I said, I didn't have any of that for ten years. I was completely fine. I just stuck to. But the one thing that I can say is I don't want to minimize how make it sound like it's so easy to do, because it's really not anything. That's like a first time when you're heading out. Like, I can remember being in a limousine going to a wedding, and I thought, how am I going to toast this event? I was up with the big table, and I was really horrified driving over there. I can remember specifically, and then I also remember when the toast happened, and I just picked up my water glass and I toasted with everyone.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:15:44]:

Nobody looked at me. Nobody paid attention. This was all something that. A fear I had created in my mind. And I think that was a lesson to me of, like, all eyes are not on me. This is something that I am. But it's very important to go through that experience so that you know and you know how to navigate it next time. It builds confidence.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:16:11]:

It's like that muscle. You have to keep strengthening it. That confidence that, hey, when you respect your choices. I found that when I respected my choices, people respected them that were around me, it was just the way I carried myself. It's kind of like the girl walking down the street, looking at her phone, not aware of anything around her compared to the girl who gets out of the car and she's standing straight up and she's walking straight ahead. Those are two different images, and I think the same is true for how you present yourself with the choices that you make. And this is a big choice. So it's just practice and courage and being okay with feeling uncomfortable and knowing that that's going to happen in the beginning, but you'll eventually find your people and you'll be able to.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:17:02]:

Sobriety has brought a lot of clarity. It's brought me the ability to.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:11]:

Be.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:17:11]:

A good mom, be a good wife, pick up writing again and see it to the end, where we have that vision of sitting on a bar stool and talking about our dreams. When you take that away and you put a better habit in its place, things can happen. All those things can take place. So there's a lot of positives to it if it's a decision you're trying to make. So it's worth giving it a shot. For sure.

Lisa Virtue [00:17:41]:

For sure. And as you mentioned, everyone's so different in their journey and where they're at. And it's very true that it's mostly in our head, in our own perception. We're so worried about what other people are looking at. Are they looking at us? Are they judging us? And really, at the end of the day, everyone's doing that. Everyone's worried about, number one, this right here. So stopping that or changing that, shifting that mindset so that it's more about, okay, I can make these small changes, but big changes internally. It's really that effort internally to actually shift the behavior, like you're mentioning.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:18:22]:

Sure.

Lisa Virtue [00:18:23]:

You reminded me of a work event I went to where I had just found out I was pregnant. It was very early in the pregnancy, and of course I was not ready to tell anyone at this work event, pregnant. And I was sitting at a table and they got really interested in my husband and me and talking about how we didn't have kids yet. It was so fascinating, this whole thing of me going, okay, I'm not going to drink, I just found out I'm pregnant. And then they start talking about, well, are you pregnant? They literally asked me that question. And so I made sure I had a glass of wine. I didn't drink it, but I just made sure it was at my place setting because I wanted the conversation to shift. Sure.

Lisa Virtue [00:19:00]:

And they moved on. It wasn't right at that point, but it was a battle internally of like, oh, my gosh, if I don't have this wine here, then they're going to start making this big rumor and I'm not ready to talk about that. And what if I lose the child and my brain went crazy into the future with all these scenarios? And what if, though, what you're saying is really resonating where shifting that mindset to, okay, the internal work. I need to do the preparation before I go out, making sure I have that plan, because this is my intentionality behind it versus just worrying about what everyone else thinks about us.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:19:37]:

Right. That's true. Yeah. For a very long time, I didn't speak openly about mine at all for 18 years. It was something that I was private about. And so I understand that completely. And it is difficult. It is difficult to enter and then decline and why.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:19:57]:

And you think everyone's asking you, but the more that I've been around in doing that, I know that all eyes are not on me, and we think that they are, and they're just not. Everyone comes to the event with the same set of nerves or uncomfortability. And so another thing that I think is a bit of a mind shift is to get away from that. It's about me. It's about me. What am I going to say? What am I going to do? It's like to completely flip that and say, well, what am I going to bring to the event? If it's an office, what am I going to bring to this to make this a better event for everyone? So it kind of opens it up.

Lisa Virtue [00:20:51]:

To.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:20:53]:

Just a complete flip. So instead of making it about me, I'm saying, hey, how can I make this better? Can I bring coffees? Can I bring this? Can I prepare a portion of a presentation for someone, whatever it is, can I make someone else feel comfortable? Maybe the newest person in the room, a girl who just started and just kind of sit next to her and start a conversation with her instead of the top person there.

Lisa Virtue [00:21:22]:

Yes, I've seen a shift, too. I think those that are listing, that are leaders, that can shift some of that culture. Being really mindful of that, I had an employee who just chose that alcohol was not her journey. It wasn't sobriety. She just never drank from a young age. That was her choice. And so someone else had to tell me that. I felt so bad as the department where she said, do you know that this person doesn't drink? They don't drink.

Lisa Virtue [00:21:50]:

I said, oh, great. No, I didn't know. And thank you for telling me. The reason I felt bad was because she didn't come and tell me. She didn't feel like she could, I suppose, at that point. And so we had a conversation about that just to let her know that it's not about alcohol. If we go out and we have an event or a team building bonding event, I just wanted to make sure she knew that that was never an expectation of that, to make sure that we had events where it wasn't this happy hour vibe. Right.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:20]:

It could be about we did one of those, what is it called? Where you unlock yourself from the room?

Jessica Stipanovic [00:22:27]:

Escape room. Escape room.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:29]:

Thank you. But a name escaped me. No, things like that. Where there was no drinks going on. Right. We had a fun team building event, and she enjoyed that. So that is one example. And then I have clients that come from religious backgrounds, know their preference is not to have alcohol.

Lisa Virtue [00:22:49]:

And moving into from, say, the Middle east into Europe, for instance, going to big tech where everything is about having the kegs out and drinking and playing games. And I've had one client in particular say, I'm really uncomfortable. It's not about how I'm treated during the workday. It's about once 04:00 hits or whatever that kind of timeline is. I feel very left out, and I'm miserable at these events. I sit in the corner and so encouraging leaders to recognize that there's a different way to do it. There's a different culture we can build. It doesn't have to be around the alcohol that we're creating this culture and maybe rethink what you have in the office.

Lisa Virtue [00:23:34]:

Right.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:23:36]:

And too, I love the idea of creating a different culture. And if you are in a drinking event, though, and you're a leader, to have nonalcoholic options like Perrier or Pellegrino or seltzers or just something there for them to enjoy themselves too, like, who doesn't like something fun there, too? So you just have those and you consider the other side of your employees and your staff that may not drink.

Lisa Virtue [00:24:09]:

Right. That's absolutely crucial, being inclusive, for sure. Yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for imparting your wisdom today and giving these great tips. Hopefully we can all take them and just be planned and prioritize our own health and well being before we feel pressured at work events to do something we're not wanting to do.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:24:35]:

Sure. Thank you so much for having me, Jessica.

Lisa Virtue [00:24:39]:

How can people get a hold of you?

Jessica Stipanovic [00:24:41]:

The best way is I have a website. It's www.jessicastepanovic.com. It's stipanovic. And I have a three, two, one. On a personal note newsletter where I just give out freebies for entrepreneurs. It follows along my authorship journey. I have a book in the edit, so it gives some sneak peeks of chapters and some giveaways. And I have a weekly podcast that comes out every Tuesday.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:25:12]:

It's called the Sober Living Stories podcast. Beautiful. And that's on Spotify and Apple and all that as well.

Lisa Virtue [00:25:17]:

Wonderful. I'll drop all the links in the description. Thank you so much again for your time and just appreciate everything that you're doing to help people with any of their habits that they're trying to break.

Jessica Stipanovic [00:25:29]:

Absolutely. Thank you for having me close.