Lisa Virtue:

So, Jennifer, it's so great to have you here as a senior vice president in leadership roles where a lot of women aspire to, but also starting your own business. You have your podcast. You are the epitome of the working woman and doing it all.

Jennifer Pestikas:

I do my very best, Lisa. I do.

Lisa Virtue:

Don't we all? Don't we all? Yeah.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

So it's so perfect to have you here to talk about confidence because you have had so many transitions in your own career. And I would love for us to just start with talking a little bit about your story, and then we'll get into the topic at hand, which is how to continue to build confidence because we know it's not a one and done right throughout our career journey. So why don't you tell us a little bit about you and your career journey and what led you to where you are today?

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah, no problem. So, man, where do I start? So I will just say that I've been in the banking space on the corporate side for almost 25 years. It's, you know, people joke, like, I started when I was eight, you know, something like that. But I didn't think I was going to end up there. Right. So my story will just inform you. You can start in one place and land in a totally different place. Right.

So, in college, I was a french and spanish double major, and I thought I was going to be a college professor and didn't do that. I came back from a trip overseas in my senior year, a year abroad, which was amazing. And then I got into banking, and here I am, like, almost 25 years later. And I will. All I will say this is that I had many leadership, you know, jags and, you know, zigs and zags and things like that, which we can get into those individual stories. But one underlying thing that was always there is I've always been that kid or that person that loved, like, personal development. And so I was the kid when, you know, borders and Barnes and noble, you know, when they were a thing, some of your listeners would be like, what's what, what's. What's borders? Anyway? But anyway, everybody, it was a bookstore that we actually went to and bought physical books and sat and got coffee, and it was really fun.

And I always was, like, attracted to the. I think it was called the self help aisle at that point, you know, with Wayne Dyer and Louise Hay and, you know, all of those original oldies but goodies. And I always just put it to the side because there was never a real career around it. And then it was about 22,004, maybe 2005, where coaching was coming on the scene. And I had told my husband early in our marriage, I went and I got coaching certified. It was like a weekend coaching program, Lisa. And it was like the initial one, right? And I'm like, you know, I'm like, babe, this is what I think I want to do. And he's like, yeah, okay.

And so, you know, I kept putting that on the side, and kept putting it on the side. And long story short, life happened, and a lot of years went by. And then in 2016, 2017, I actually did end up getting. Getting coaching certified with IPEC was my coaching school, the Institute for Professional Excellence and coaching. And after that, I was just lit on fire. But I didn't know what to do because I had my other career. So, yes, I am still straddling, and I'm fine with that. It's been an interesting journey.

And then in 2019, I, of course, as you probably would imagine, I went through burnout because I have been doing a lot. And from there, part of my healing, which I interviewed someone else that told me I went through something called post traumatic growth, and that's what started the podcast. And my executive coaching and my company, brave women at work, is really out of that hardship and that pain. Something beautiful was born. So that's a little bit about me. But, yes, I still have my corporate career, and I think that really makes me very relatable. At least that's what my clients say is they're like, yeah, you're right there in the trenches with us, which makes it a little unique that I'm still in that position. So that's a little bit about me.

Lisa Virtue:

Awesome. Thank you for sharing that. Um, I love that post traumatic burnout syndrome.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

I think a lot of people can relate and different factors in our career, different chapters in our career. Right. This can happen. Um, I can definitely relate in my own story, too. And I know when we first met, I think we're in the tail end of the pandemic. And I had quit just cold turkey for my executive position and went into coaching full time, similar to where I didn't know until I had worked with my own coaches getting to that executive suite that that could be a career, coaching people, right. Especially those of us that are in leadership positions, we talk about, what is your style? I had always identified as a coach, and I had done coaching athletics and coaching kids. And so for me, I had known that I was a coach at heart, but I didn't know all those moments of coaching staff or helping them find their next position or interviews, that.

That could lead. Lead to a full career, full time. So it. Yeah. Was wonderful. And I think a lot of the listeners will relate if they're in a career transition or trying to figure out what that next step is. A lot of times, we just don't even know what is an option for our personality type because we haven't been exposed to it. Right.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Absolutely. I agree with that.

Lisa Virtue:

So you've taken this very traditional approach in one half of your career, and on the other half, you saw this evolution of coaching, and now you're coaching executives yourself and have your podcast. So how do you manage all of that? How do you bide your time between everything?

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah. So I get this question, like, almost every day. Okay, so here. Here's the secret, is that some days I do it well, and some days I don't do it so well. I will tell you, I have a lot of support, so I'd be lying to you. Be like, oh, yeah, Lisa, I do all this myself. That's a. That would be a lie.

So I have an amazing partner and my husband, John, who is great with our kids. So I do have two daughters, um, you know, and our kids are watching us. I know you wrote a book, um, you know, during the pandemic for your daughter, I think was your daughter, right?

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, it was my daughter. Yep.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah. And so, um. Is it called career Mama?

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah. So there we go. Yeah, I was like. I remember.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah.

Jennifer Pestikas:

So I have two daughters, so I feel like, you know, they're watching. Right. And if I don't really fulfill, this is part of my passion. Right. If I don't fulfill that and just stay in the safe lane, like, what am I telling. What am I teaching my own children? And so I have an amazing partner in my husband that helps with a lot of the, you know, our stuff at home, running kids and things like that. And then I have my virtual assistant. Got to give a shout out to Viv out in New Zealand who helps me.

And I have a business partner out in Las Vegas that helps me when we do books. And so I have people that I can call on that that kind of helps. And I also have put some things in place, like daily meditation, like sleep, has become a non negotiable as I'm getting older. And so those are some other things. And I have to say, when you're doing something you so enjoy, and, Lisa, I don't know if this. You resonate with us. I get so much energy out of coaching, and out of helping people that it doesn't feel like a drain. Right.

It is work, but it doesn't feel like work. And I've never had that before. And so I actually think it makes me a better corporate, corporate leader having this work than before I had this work, if that makes sense.

Lisa Virtue:

It definitely does. Yeah. A 14 hours day for me now is very different than a few years back.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah. And it's okay because you're like, wow, I'm like, you know, I'm lit on fire with this because I'm building something I believe in or I'm helping people. I love on your. I looked at your LinkedIn intro. You know, I help people cry happy tears. Right. So, like, when people have those happy tears, you were a part of that process. Of course they were, too, but you were a big part of it as well.

And so that's so rewarding.

Lisa Virtue:

Absolutely. Can definitely relate. So I also resonate completely with. It's not just us. When it looks like one person's accomplishing a lot, there's always, you know, the old adage of behind every great man, there's a woman. Right. Why can't we flip the script? And every great woman, there's probably a whole community. Yeah.

Jennifer Pestikas:

There's a village. You know, there's a great partner, there's a great childcare provider, whatever. We got the whole village behind us.

Lisa Virtue:

Yep, for sure. And so finding those pieces, that spark for you and what fulfills you is so powerful and then letting go of other things, I think there's a lot of work there. We're going to talk about bravery now, and that is a moment of bravery when it's like, okay, I don't have to be the one that's always taking my kids to practice. Someone else can do that. And it's not that I'm showing up as a bad mom or there's shame behind that. Like, it's just that you're choosing when you're engaging with your children and when you don't have to be the one to engage with your children. And that's okay, too, because it takes a village to raise them also.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah, I. So there are a couple minor things there. So during COVID my husband had the opportunity to be home more than I did in my position. And just my work environment just demands more face to face time. And I will never forget that the moms in my community would only text my husband because he was like, the stay at home mom. Right. Which I have to say, let's be real. I mean, I take ego hits just like everybody else, where I'm like, wow, why isn't that me? You know? And it's.

It's just these are the choices I've made. Right. And, you know, there are balances. Does that mean, like, I don't want listeners to feel like, oh, I'm never home for my kids or this or that? No, it's not about that. It's just that I do have a lot of work, you know, that I'm called to do and a lot of places that I need to be. And it is okay that, you know, my. My partner and my husband, that we have that team based environment, like, at home, where, like, they see dad stepping up and they see mom stepping up and it's okay. But yes, are there times, Lisa, where I feel guilty or I'm like, oh, you know, this isn't good, or whatever? Of course it's human.

But, you know, I just, you know, as a coach, I can kind of reframe those thoughts a little quicker right after getting trained than I could before.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. And there's a lot of men that would love to be stay at home or are doing that work. And so allowing society to acknowledge that, too, I think, is so powerful. Just saying that it doesn't have to be one way.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Right.

Lisa Virtue:

Everybody's family looks very different, and that's okay.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Virtue:

Love it. Okay, let's dig into your podcast title is brave women at work. And I love that. Where. How did you land on that title, and where did that come from for you?

Jennifer Pestikas:

Okay, so this is interesting. So, I did podcasting before brave women at work, and it was banking related, but I always felt. And it was about banking and women, and it was originally called bank on women. You know, the spin on banking and women. Right. And it just never felt entirely right. And I had a co podcaster, and, um, I'll just say that I give him a lot of credit because he taught me some of the initial chops of podcasting. That was the only schooling I had, was to jump into the deep end of the pool.

Lisa, maybe you're in relation, you know, you relate to that. Yeah. People ask me like, so did you take classes or did you, like, do journalism in college? I'm like, no and no. Like, you just get a mic and you just go for it. And so, um. So he. He trained me initially, but I felt the need and the call to go on my own and have my own podcast. And I would love to tell you, there's this great story behind it, but there's not.

It's just my intuition said to me, it's brave women at work. And then what I did is I went and I searched for the business URL, thinking there's no way that this URL, bravewomanatwork.com is available. And it was. And when I contracted out to have the website done, like, the developers, like, we couldn't believe that that URL was available. They're like, you need to buy that. You need to buy that now. So that's pretty much how it came to be, is it just came to my intuition that I had felt at periods in my career where I didn't feel as brave. And I have interviewed now so many women that have done amazing things, like own businesses, write books, give TEDx talks, things like that.

And I'll ask them, like, do you feel brave? And they're like, no. And I'm like, what is this about? And so I liked that juxtaposition because the word brave has got actually a very masculine connotation. So I liked that, like, juxtaposition of, like, that male and female energy. And that does come through in my podcast.

Lisa Virtue:

So how has bravery showed up for you in your career? And what have you done to continue to build your own confidence along the way?

Jennifer Pestikas:

So I've had some key inflection points and key tests kind of. In short, one example that comes to mind is my mentor. His name was Junior. He passed away after a back surgery unexpectedly when he was 48 years old. And it was like, left our whole team in a tailspin. And we worked really closely together. And like I said, he was my mentor and he was my friend. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, there were talks or kind of scuttlebutt like, are they going to close the department down, the program down? And so my intuition kind of pushed me again and said, go talk to the CEO.

Go and see if you can keep the ship floating for like 18 months, is what ended up happening. And that was a moment of bravery. Another moment of bravery with him. Again, my mentor is that he kind of had, like, a work hard, play harder kind of philosophy. I'll just leave it at that. And I told him like, hey, you're partying a little hard, and I don't want to speak at your funeral. And then, lo and behold, a year later, I spoke at his funeral. And so his wife came to me at the wake and asked me to do part of his eulogy.

And I felt that that was really brave, that I, like, you know, went up there and, you know, who wants to do that, right? For your own mentor. And so there have been moments like that, you know, there were. In my current role with my current company, I went and interviewed when I was, like, eight months pregnant. Yeah. And I'm, like, waddling to the interview.

Lisa Virtue:

Right.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Because I have nothing to lose, you know? Like, those are moments like, I'm actually publishing a book at the end of this month, and my chapter is called decisions, decisions, decisions, out of the women's anthology I'm publishing. Because it's in those small moments where it's like, okay, am I going to go and interview for this big job when I'm eight months pregnant? Sometimes I probably would have said no, because I would have been like, no one's going to hire me in this condition. And I ended up getting hired. Or I would have said to myself, with a lack of confidence, you can't lead the team after your mentor passed for 18 months. Well, I did. It's not to be showy. It's just to say, hey, this is what's possible if you can believe in yourself and, you know, ask the questions for sure.

Lisa Virtue:

So when you work with your clients. Cause we. We both do this work where it's building that confidence, helping them understand how to build it for themselves, how to sustain it when needed. Um, do you have any tips or things that you start with, with your clients around confidence building?

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yes. So I like to do a couple things. Um, one of the things I'm taking my group program through right now is just getting a baseline of, like, where they are. Right. So I am a believer in assessments. I don't think that it has to be, you know, exactly like you said, black and white, you know, that, you know, if it says you're this, that you have to be in that box, but it kind of informs you of kind of who you are. And I think as a leader, you need to have some sort of level of self awareness. And, you know, some of my clients will be like, oh, you know, I don't have any strengths.

I'm like, you know, that's not true. You know, let's go and do a strengths finder and find out what you bring to the table. Or a Clifton strengths. Now let's go find that. Um, let's go show, um, my coaching school has something called the energy leadership index. Let's see how you're showing up energetically at work and in your life. Let's do a couple of assessments to get a baseline, and then from there, I like to. I built kind of a confidence model, and, um, I won't remember every step of it right now, but I like to kind of go back and really start looking at reframing, like, what are the stories and the narratives that they're telling selling themselves? So, we get curious about those narratives because we all do carry those narratives, whether they're from childhood or whether they're from, like, our current situation.

And I feel part of my job is to help them learn how to rebuild those narratives so that they can put one brick of confidence on the wall at a time and then helping them with the reframing. Then from there, it's like, okay, well, what small action steps can we take? You know, those baby steps? You know, once we've cleared some of that reframing and cleared some of that mental, what? Head trash. Right. Or that head space. You know, what kind of small actions and then larger actions, like a rolling snowball down a hill, can we take so that you can take that braver and bolder action in your career? So, those are some of the steps that I take my clients through, and, you know, it'll depend on where they are. Right. Some of them may have done some of the, like, the baseline work and know what their strengths are, and we just jump right into reframing. Some of them need a little bit more help in a step or another, but that's some of the stuff that I do with my clients.

Lisa Virtue:

And we talked before about how this is a practice, right? It's not a one and done. So when it comes to, okay, done, a lot of the big lift, maybe you're working with a coach or you're doing it on your own and you're feeling a confidence boost, and then you go a period of time, and now you're in a slump again or you're in a place where you're just lacking that confidence. Is there a way that you see that people can kind of maintain throughout so they don't get that big slump or that down spiral that might happen later?

Jennifer Pestikas:

So, yes, if you really do the work. So, my goal is, and I think that coaches. I think our goals, quote unquote, should be right, that they shouldn't need us all the time. Right. So I'm not here to be your crutch. I'm here to give you tools so that you can actually coach yourself and that when you do get into, like, a pothole of confidence or imposter syndrome, that you know how to get out of it. Right. Because I would be, again, lying if I didn't say that there were moments that I have self doubt or lack of confidence or whatever, that's, I think that's part of the human condition.

And anyone who says, you know, like, you can beat your imposter syndrome, like all those, like, violent, like terms. So I'm just like, um, no, no, that doesn't work. Like, this is part of humanity. That's part of your reptilian, fear based brain, like, protecting you. It's. I think the game here is how can you give yourself self compassion and get to a place of peace or baseline or neutrality quicker? That's the new game that you're playing. And if I can give you tools to do that and you remember or go back to those tools or the recordings or the notes or the scripts or any of the resources that I'm providing you, then that's a win for sure.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. Like you said, it's very natural. It's natural we're going to have these moments.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

We change and life changes. And so exactly what you're saying, the tools, I completely agree that if we could coach ourselves out of a job, this is the success. Right. As a coach, because there's so many people out there. It's not that we need to hold on to people, but once in a while maybe it is nice that somebody can be a sounding board again. Of course, get back and practice those tools, but at the same time equipping people with tools that work for them because there's so many tools out there that sometimes I think that that can harm people. They're just research, research, research all day long. There's so much noise that finding what is it for them that will work and resonate and get them through? And then how can they sustain practicing those tools? Exactly.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah. And you know what? I think the other piece that's really important is, you know, you have to find the right fit with your coach or with this tool. And if it's not the right fit, then go and find something that is right. So if I tell a client and there's not a synergy, it's okay, you know, because at the end of the day, I'd rather have you go and invest that time, the financial resources, other, you know, resources of your self effort into something that's really going to work for you. And the last thing I would, I would say is, I wish that we were taught this as kids, you know, again, like, you know, getting us out of jobs. Right. These are critical life skills that I don't know about you, but I didn't get as a Gen X or. No, I didn't get it.

I was like, oh, why am I, like, almost 40 and now hitting this wall? Well, I guess. I guess to do this work, Lisa.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, right. The reason we were pushed into hardships.

Jennifer Pestikas:

And I'm like, oh, okay, this is part of my purpose, so I got to go through the hard stuff for others. Okay.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, it's true. And my daughter's eight, and even there, there's not. There's more and more tools coming out. But I'll say that if parents aren't equipped with it because we weren't trained, it's really hard to pass that on to our children, too. So being able to kind of make this a generational wealth of tools in your toolkit that you can help navigate those emotional states and build your confidence. Gosh, wouldn't that be beautiful?

Jennifer Pestikas:

Oh, it would be really beautiful. And I. My kids are 13, and my little one's about to be six, and my 13, you know, I mean, a lot of learning in there for my 13, you know, like, going with a girl through those years and, yeah, I mean, she's been one of my biggest teachers. You know, how can I be present? How can I be emotionally present for her? How can I share the tools I do in coaching? She doesn't even know I'm doing it right. You know, to make her feel, of course this is normal. You know, I'm validating her. I'm listening to her. I'm listening to her with, like, every fiber of my being, right.

And making her feel special and stuff that, you know, again, I just. I wish we would have learned when we were kids.

Lisa Virtue:

I completely agree. As much as we can pass down now, I will say I've seen a shift with these younger women and call them the up and coming women, and, oh, they're going to be forces, aren't they? It's beautiful. The emotional intelligence.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah. You know what's interesting is I feel like I can. They challenge me, right? Because I'm Gen X, solidly Gen X. And I came up with, you know, my parents were the gold watch generation, you know, the boomers that were there forever. Right. And you worked at that job whether you liked it or not. And this new generation is like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, what about my values? Like, how are you giving back to community? How is this serving me? And if it's not serving me, there's a big, bad world out there, and I'm going to go find something that does.

And I think that you talk about brave I think that's really brave, and I think it's really inspiring, and it pushes me out of my comfort zone. And I also will say I've had recently a few other younger clients, more millennial, maybe, maybe even younger than that. And I find it so inspiring that they're seeking out coaching younger, whereas, you know, I do have a lot of clients that are mid career or even later, pre retiree, things like that. That's what I expected, Lisa, I was going to have, but I am seeing a mix of this younger generation because they're like, well, no, I really want to hone my communication. I really want to hone my executive presence. And I'm like, wow, I wasn't thinking about this at your age. Right. But I applaud them for really doing the work and doing it early.

Lisa Virtue:

Mm hmm. I. 100%. It's so important and valuable, especially these women that are getting into leadership roles, too, because we know that there's a lot of leaders out there and there's a lot of really bad leaders, and there could be a lot of good leaders and having, again, someone to work with you on that skill set and help you, because being a leader and a good leader, you have to have bravery. You have to have confidence. There's so much behind that. So being able to use those tools and harness that helps everybody, not just the individual.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Exactly, exactly. And then I even think, you know, of my, my daughters, which are more even younger. Right. My little ones, a generation alpha. And it's interesting, you know, both of my girls, and I love them, but they're, they're bossy little ladies. Right?

Lisa Virtue:

Yes.

Jennifer Pestikas:

I don't, I don't, I don't. I don't like squash that. You know, when we were kids, it'd be like, you know, kids are seen and not heard or, you know, you are, you know, you don't back. What do they say? Yeah, no back talk or, you know, speak when spoken to and things like that. I don't do that with my girls because I'm like, you know what? I'm not going to diminish that because in my mind, that's future leadership. That's future, you know, championing others. That's future advocating for themselves. And so there might be parents that disagree with what I'm saying, and I respect that, but for me, I'm not going to squash that.

Lisa Virtue:

I completely agree with my daughter, too. And I just keep saying it's really hard raising these incredible women. That's okay. That it's hard. But I can't wait to see what they do because they are pretty incredible. And the more work we can do to help pave the way to give them those opportunities and allow them to be seen as equals in the workplace and all of that powerful work. And people before us did that as well. Right? So again, that generational wealth, women too, supporting women, we can't take that for granted.

Jennifer Pestikas:

No, not at all.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Jennifer, for sharing your stories, your tips. Of course. Love talking to you. It's been too long. We'll have to do it again soon.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. I'm happy to help support you. And I think that more and more women are shining their lights in the world. So as soon as you, like, said you're putting out a podcast, I'm like, yep, yep, I'm in. I'm in.

Lisa Virtue:

I love it. Thank you so much for that support.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Of course.

Lisa Virtue:

Really appreciate it. So how can people get a hold of you?

Jennifer Pestikas:

Of course. So again, my business name is brave women at work. You can find me@bravewomanatwork.com and there are freebies there you can get, you can listen to the podcast, read the blog, schedule an appointment if you'd like to talk offline. And then I'm also super active on LinkedIn and you can connect with me there. And then finally, I do write women's anthologies and share women's stories. I feel that's part of, like, my purpose. And so the third one, speaking about leadership, brave women at work, lessons in leadership, is coming out in the world April 30, as we're recording this, of 2024. So if it's out there, it'll be an ebook first, and then in late June it'll be a hardcover.

So definitely check that out.

Lisa Virtue:

Exciting. Congratulations. And thank you so much for doing all of this for all of us ladies.

Jennifer Pestikas:

Yeah, no problem. Thank you. Amazing.