Lisa Virtue

Emily, thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day as a mama and a business owner and all the things to come. Talk to me. I'm so excited to talk to you. Yeah, we have some. Some very big similarities when it comes to some family challenges and things like that. And so we're going to dig into that a little bit how it relates to career and how, as you have decided to maybe go against the grain, what your family was expecting or, you know, all those things that we have with family, it gets complicated, doesn't it?

Emily Vermeer

Absolutely.

Lisa Virtue

Yeah. So let's start with talking about your career journey. I would love listeners to hear a little bit about you and all the way to why we're talking today.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you first and foremost for having me on. I'm just honored to be here and amongst your following, your audience and their ears today. I'm just so excited to share because it's so important for us to learn from other people, and I feel like it's humbling when you hear something that just sits with your heart, you know, so people can know, hey, you're not alone. We all got crazy people around us, right?

Lisa Virtue

We got to find our are actual people.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah. Yeah. So just to give a backstory, I grew up very traditional, and I was second generation college. My grand. My grandma did go to college. My parents got their associates, and it was very expected of me to go to school. I'm the baby of the family, and my brother paved his own way and was very rebellious, and I did not want the grief and the pity basically, that was given to him. So I just started to go along with what society, what other people that were my age were going with, and I just went for it.

So I went to school. I went to college. I got a four year degree in recreational therapy, which no one still to this day, my father in law thinks that I am a massage therapist, and I am nothing. Very different. Very different. Very different. And I did that. And immediately it was the next expectation to go and get my masters.

And I was in Chicago at the time, and I was like, all right, let's get a master's went. Got myself into debt, right, to go to school, and not to say anything's wrong with that, that got another piece of paper and my master's of nonprofit management and leadership, um, and not using either one of those degrees today. Um, but so thankful for the experience and also just looking back to see, oh, man, life is different. Um, and I'm glad for the opportunities and what it took me, but also, I just went by everyone else's game plan for my life. And even I'm sure some of you, you, lisa, and then some of the listeners can relate to this, of everyone's looking for what's next, man? And I remember when we. I met my husband, and they're like, okay, when are you going to get married? And then we got engaged. When's the wedding? Okay, got married. When's, you know, when are you going to get the house? Got the house.

When are you going to have the baby? Have the baby. When's the next baby? Okay, here's the next baby. And it was never this appreciation of, like, just being like, when are you just going to be. And soak it in? And I remember I was working for special Olympics in my county about three years ago, right as Covid was happening, and I went for my annual review, and my supervisor said, all right, so you're doing a great job. You've been here for three years. Just keep it up. And now you know the ropes of how everything works. So now in the next 30 years, you just get to coast.

And he was saying that, like, I should be excited for that, but in actuality, I really wanted to throw up. I was like, are you seriously telling me that for the next 30 years, this is exactly what's going to happen? I'm going to come to this desk and do this job, and that's it. Like, I'm going to do the same thing for the next 30 years. And I could not see that for myself. I felt very boxed in and that there was no ceiling. And fast forward to today led to completely moving out of my hometown. I was five mile radius of everyone in my family, and I was asked a question of, what are you tolerating? And the very life that I did not want for myself was the one that I was actively choosing. And I feel like some of us, like, that's a big pill to swallow of, like, oh, I don't want this life.

I'm actually desiring something else. Well, what does that look like? And so it took my husband and I sitting down. We actually took a trip to where we live now, fell in love, and within four months, we're like, boom, out of here into a new space. And we actually created our own business at the same time. And so it was just amazing to realize a whole different world. Like, no one ever told me about small business. No one ever told me about entrepreneurship until three years ago. I stumbled upon it, and I was like, now I know it's like my world just kind of opened up, and now I cannot stop thinking of new ideas and new things and just very creative.

And so had I stayed with the societal expectations and also my family's expectations, man, would I have been so limited. And the people that I'm providing services for and doing, they wouldn't have had what I have opened up and started doing, you know? And so it's been really cool to kind of pave that on path for myself and then be that inspiration for other people that have kind of been stuck in that societal warp, right. To come out of that and be like, oh, life is completely different outside of this and the blessings of that. So that my long winded story of getting here.

Lisa Virtue

Oh, thank you for sharing. So our society and here in the Us, we've done such a good job of getting access to education, right? Especially for women like, go, go, go get your education. And it's this badge of honor, especially for certain generations, that didn't have that access. I remember my grandma, who is no longer with us. She was biggest advocate, loved her so much she owned her own business. But she would say things like, oh, you'll get your master's someday. And anytime I look at doing things like that, it's very appealing because I love to learn. But the ROI was just not there in my situation.

Now, it definitely has a place for people. But over the years, I hired a lot of people with masters and PhDs that were making $15 to $20 an hour maximum at that time, and they were just struggling to figure out what to do with that degree. So we've done a really good job of access to education, but not helping people figure out what their it is. Right. I know you call it, like, your it factor or what jobs you can actually get. The education system just pumps people through, and then ten years in, they're coming to people like you and me, like, oh, my gosh, I don't want to do this forever. Like you were saying.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue

Again, some people, you know, some people might be listening and think, oh, this sounds like a dream. Emily, how did, like, you're. You're set. You don't have to have, really, a performance appraisal that matters, again, for 30 years. Like a lot of people, that is their dream, but it's not for everybody, correct?

Emily Vermeer

Yeah. And I think just being able to discern that and being open, because I, like I said, I wasn't open to that. No one. Me, this other side of, and I mean, to no one's fault. My family probably didn't even realize that there was bones in me that were wanting that or would desire that, but it's being aware of it and then giving that discernment to yourself of, like, oh, is there more? And if there is, being able to, what does that next step look like to go after that?

Lisa Virtue

Yeah. So, for you, I'm curious, what were some of those signs and symptoms? What was happening? So you had this kind of spark moment. It sounds like when you're in that performance appraisal, and some of the words just hit a chord differently than you probably expected at the time. Right?

Emily Vermeer

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue

After that, what were your symptoms or the signs of, like, I have to make a change. What went on?

Emily Vermeer

Yeah. So I. To give, like, to go along with this, I was in network marketing simultaneously as I was working full time, and so I feel like I had gotten glimpses of what other people's lives looked like with time, freedom, and financial freedom. And so I was starting to see other people living a life that they desired, that wasn't dictated by other people. They could go on trips anytime they wanted, right. They could. And have income to afford extra things that they desired. And to me, I love to take spontaneous trips.

I love to just be sitting on the couch and then one moment be like, oh, you want to go to the beach? Let's go. Like, just to be able to get up and go. And that holds value in me personally. And so I started to put these puzzle pieces together as I was hearing from my boss of, like, just coast, and recognizing that feeling inside of me of being like, ooh, I don't want a life of predictability. It was also learning about myself, of knowing, oh, that doesn't sit well with me anymore. Even though every person in my family is living that life, every single one, not one person in my core family is an entrepreneur. My husband's family, they are, but they were retired, so I wasn't even seeing that. I didn't have anyone around me that was living this life of desire, so it required me to go outward.

So I started following people on social media, and I started to see, oh, my gosh, there's this coaching thing, and people are doing this. And so it started to open my eyes, and it sounds like when you hear people speak that it's these, like, quick things that happen, right? That overnight they just quit their job and started this thing. But it was these small puzzle pieces that started falling into place for me to see that. One, it was open to me, and two, I had access to it that it was available to me and that I was worthy of it, that I didn't have to go take a test, I didn't have to apply for a special grant. I didn't have to have requirements in order to do this. I just needed to believe in myself enough and have something to offer. And so I just started taking those small steps, and then I hired a coach that helped me curate that, and it's kind of a crazy story. I started working with her as her assistant, and that opened the doors to more opportunities to get in this realm and realize that I was coaching people the whole time, you know? And so it's really cool to see when you have this in you the whole time, but actually going for it, making something out of it.

Lisa Virtue

Oh, I can totally relate, Emily. Like, for me, during the pandemic, I quit my job, and it was a surprise to many, but what they didn't see was that internal mindset that was going on for years, working with coaches for years, knowing I wasn't going to stay in the industry for years. And it finally everything came to a head. And I was also in Portland, Oregon, and Black Lives Matters was literally on our doorstep. So I was seeing all these people advocating for themselves. Life is so short, and we're in the middle of the pandemic. So it was like this beautiful concoction of all these things. But the work had been going on for years for me personally.

Yeah. And so when I quit, people are like, what are you going to do? Like, yeah, I'm finally going to be my own boss 100% of the time because I also had been an entrepreneur along the way, similar to you. Like, I had seen glimpses of it had just never taken that leap. So, yeah, you're right. It takes work to really figure that out. And some people might be thinking maybe entrepreneurship is for me. I have that with my clients a lot when they're in that place of, I know this is not what I want, and they're trying to get that clarity. They're trying to figure out exactly what you're saying.

What is it for me individually, right. My unique situation, my makeup, my values, which everyone is different. And when you do that hard work, entrepreneurship might be something for you. Or you might be like, oh, my gosh, that stability is actually my number one value. Like, it sounds like a lot of your family members probably have that, that they're drawn to, right? And your husband is a little more like that. Like, there's more stability there, and he feels like he's contributing, and it's you know, he would love to quit his job. Don't get me wrong. If he knew.

If he knew he doesn't have such a high risk tolerance. Right.

Emily Vermeer

Yes.

Lisa Virtue

He'd be okay. I'm like, let's go. It'll be fine.

Emily Vermeer

Same.

Lisa Virtue

Yeah. And I'm very different that way. So not. It's not for everyone. But what you're saying does apply to everyone. Like, make sure you're really checking in. And when it comes to societal pressures, family pressures. Yeah, I would love to.

Let's dig into that a little bit more. Let's talk about.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah, let's do it.

Lisa Virtue

Yeah. I know you're willing to share, so I'm going to take advantage of that.

Emily Vermeer

Yes.

Lisa Virtue

Because people do need to hear. Right. It's okay to set boundaries and to have your own life, and that. That can be really tough. So let's talk about your family. And, yeah, you were close to them. You were doing, you said, kind of the checkboxes of what they were expecting, too.

Emily Vermeer

Yes.

Lisa Virtue

You moved. So how did that all go down?

Emily Vermeer

Yeah, girl. So I am from the south. I live in North Carolina. I grew up in a small town. Everybody knew everybody. And I am part of a pretty influential family in our small town. Everyone knows our last name. And my grandparents did a great job of setting up that foundation of community within our family, within our church, within the area.

Right. And when I met my husband, my husband lived in Chicago at the time, so I fell in love. Girl's gonna go. So I moved to Chicago. I was written off of everything. My name was no longer in wills. It was no longer on. Yeah.

Completely off of things. And this had happened to another family member who had done something similar. And I was like, uh uh, this is not happening. I am still your daughter, your granddaughter, your brother, your. Your sister, you know what I'm saying? And so I made sure that I continued to be who I am. I called them every week. I still came to visit. They came up to visit me.

I am a catalyst of getting my family on planes for the first time. Oh, wow. Yeah. I'm like, oh, you guys are seeing the world. This is so great. Right? And it's just being able to, like, being okay with being that. That first kind of, like, pioneer right of life for some people. And also recognizing that my family, my granddad, he's 90, some years old.

He grew up a different, completely different time than I did. And so leaving was heartbreaking for his family. And also, he grew up in wars, so you never knew if they were coming back. And so being able to see the perspective for me to be able to see the love behind it instead of the, like, not greatness beyond it, because they have their opinions, but I also have mine. And then when I decided to. I decided to quit my job and move the same time. So we came back and had. We came back to North Carolina and had our kids, and then we felt led to move.

It was very toxic. And I'm a big proponent of you get to choose who you surround yourself by. And I am not going to place myself in places where it's toxic. It's not going to serve me, so I'm not going to be in that. And that's where we were literally five mile radius of all my family where people would just walk in our house, not even knock, they would just come in, and we're like, okay, this has got to end. So we. I left my job and moved within the same conversation. So I had that conversation with my family of like, hey, I quit my job, I'm starting a business, and we're moving 3 hours from you.

And it was a very tough conversation to have, but necessary. And I cannot tell you, like, I can't even describe the amount of relief that was off of me when I said it. I felt so free of judgment, free of just the hanging over, of toxicity that had pulled me down. And when we moved, I actually stepped into who I've been called to be. And so some parts, some of my family don't even recognize the woman that I am today because of what has shifted in me moving and who I have stepped up to be and what I've learned over the past couple of years. And it's been really different because now when I go back home, my family kind of expects me to be the old n. The old version of myself. And they think that I will sit there and condone negative conversations.

Conversations. I will be the first to check them. Be like, we are not saying that. And if you want to believe that, cool. But I'm going to leave the room, right? And so just letting people know that this is who I am now. But also, like you said, setting boundaries has been so huge for me, and it's a learning game. It's not one that you're going to be excellent at right away. And you get to decipher that as you go.

Like, for me, we have now learned after three years of going and visiting family and them coming to visit us, three days. Perfect. They come in and then they get to go after that third day. And same for us. We're about a two day max. When we go visit them, it's enough of travel. And then I also am creative when it comes to setting boundaries. When we hear boundaries, I'm sure, Lisa, you feel this way or felt this way at some point.

Like, people think of them kind of harshly, right? Like, we have to cut people out or we have to say no more. But there's a way to set gentle and creative boundaries. And when I started doing that, it frees up so much of your headspace and your mental capacity to make you not feel like a bad person for setting the boundaries. Like, for instance, of knowing two days is probably our max with our family and visiting them, but also scheduling things in there to make it not. Because my family is very sedentary. So if we go visit them, it's literally they just want to sit down and just hang out. They don't play games, they don't do anything. But if I creatively say, well, we're going to go visit friends at a park from this hour to this hour, then we're going to come home and we'll have lunch all together for 1 hour, right? And then we're going to go do this, and then we'll be back for dinner.

So then we're honoring their time spending with us and us spending with them, but we're also not draining ourselves at the same time. And another way that I love to set boundaries with friends or with maybe people that you don't necessarily want to give your whole time to is setting, like, coffee dates or lunch dates of, like, just a specific amount of time. I do this with some of my family members, make sure that it's a good exchange, that I'm not spending too much time, I'm not getting drained and vice versa. I, because I love to help people. So if someone tells me that they have a problem, I will immediately go into coaching and be like, we can do this and this and this and this. And then I'm like, oh, my gosh, I just spent 3 hours for free for someone. You know what I mean? Like all the things.

Lisa Virtue

So set boundaries for ourselves too. Yep.

Emily Vermeer

Yes. Just being creative with that again. Learning. Learning yourself enough.

Lisa Virtue

Yeah. I like what you said about setting the timeframe because that's something I learned. Usually we're so good about, like, oh, let's meet at this time. What we don't often do regularly is say, the end time.

Emily Vermeer

Yes.

Lisa Virtue

And so being able to just say, I've got to go by x time, that can really? It also frees you up and make it what you need it to be. Right. It doesn't. You don't have to have an excuse to run off. You don't have to say, oh, I've got to go do this thing. You can just say, that's when I need to leave.

Emily Vermeer

Yes.

Lisa Virtue

Then do what you need. Right. And if they say, what are you up to? You can share what you want, but you just say, oh, yeah, I'm a got some chores to do. You know, whatever it is, you don't have to go into detail. I think we see, as women, we like to share and collaborate, and sometimes it bites us in the butt later. They're like, oh, I wish I hadn't have done that. And then I didn't get my boundary wasn't honored, etcetera.

Emily Vermeer

Yes.

Lisa Virtue

The other thing I thought was also interesting is you had to, you really had to have a physical boundary. A lot of times we talk about boundaries, it's about verbal boundaries or I, you know, just, we're in our own flow and day, and we just need to set some boundaries for ourselves and others. But you are having people in your space.

Emily Vermeer

Yes.

Lisa Virtue

Like you said, walking into your house. So this is very similar, I think, in the workplace, when we talk about boundaries at work, too, is are you allowing people into your physical space? And that can now be virtual, like, this is still physical. Right. It's your physical energy being drained. And so what does that look like? And are you able to cut that off when you need to and set those boundaries? Yeah.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah. And don't be hard on yourself to stand up for yourself in that. It doesn't have to be harsh. That's why I think it's so great to stay gentle and creative boundaries, because it's really honoring you and the other person. Right. And so being able to just get your wording and your belief system in that of, like, it doesn't have to be. You're not cutting yourself off from the world and you're honoring yourself and other people in that.

Lisa Virtue

Mm hmm. Absolutely. So as far as the education system, let's go back for a second. I'm curious if you have advice for the listeners. So what we often do is we get hung up on, well, this is what I went to school. School for, so I must find something within that realm or people won't look at me for opportunity. Right. I got a liberal arts degree, but I really want to go over here and pivot to science, and I don't know how to do that now.

That's probably a bad example, because science, you typically do need to have a very specific education. But to my point, it's just people are constantly looking to transition. And so I have some thoughts on this, too, as a career coach. But I'm curious for you, with this lived experience you had, how did your college degree help you? How does it really not apply? Does it apply? Like, I'd love to hear more about that.

Emily Vermeer

So I would say, for me specifically, I didn't. No one asked me what I wanted to do. Like, what do you want to do? And also, I know just having. I have two young kids, I feel like we limit a our children by what's available to them of career opportunities. And, I mean, you can look at it in just play sets of, like, what they can wear as costumes of. Okay, we got doctor, we got firefighter, we got policeman, we got princess. Like, what. What array are we teaching? My son wants to be an archaeologist, and I don't know where he got that from and where that interest came from, but I think it's so important for us to nurture and ask ourselves, what do you really want? What do you really want to do? No one asked me that.

And honestly, maybe in college, I wouldn't have known what to respond with. I don't know. And we put this pressure on. Figure it out. Figure out what you want to do, figure out what you're capable of and not really nurturing our gifts and what we're gifted with and really letting people know and that I do feel like that could be something that we could do a better job of, like in high school and nurturing and letting people. Letting the kids know, hey, you're really. You really excel at this. I was blinded and thought that talents were only in the athletic and the musical division, and I can't do either.

I'm not very athletic, and I don't have musical bone in my body. But now being on this other end, I know that I'm super gifted in encouraging other people. I know I'm super gifted in connecting people. But if I had someone, like, mentoring me at that young age to seek that out and guide me kind of that way into roles that I could plug into, I feel like that would have been more helpful. I kind of pigeonholed myself in college to one thing that stuck. And actually, I wanted to be an occupational therapist. The school I went to dropped the major.

Lisa Virtue

Oh, no.

Emily Vermeer

So I was paying all this money to go to this specific private school because it was a five year degree, and before it became a master's, and they changed it my freshman year. So I was stuck at the school not knowing what I wanted to do. And they're like, oh, just go be a psychology degree. And I was like, I took one class, I was like, absolutely nothing. I cannot do this. And they didn't line up with like, okay, what's going to happen next after this? Like, yeah, yeah. So then I pigeonholed myself of, like, what's the next thing that I can do with what I have with my credits, right, to make it make sense. And I found recreational therapy, which I did love, and I feel like it did serve me in the time that I was a part of, and it did give me great event planning skills.

So I use that now and what I do. But besides that, I kind of feel like it's this. Well, for me personally, it was kind of like a game of, like, trying to piece it all together. And now I'm currently not using any of my degrees. And another thing, with my recreational therapy, you have to be licensed and certified. So that was something that was a big choice for me to stop and no longer be certified because you can operate in that, with that title, without it. So that's another big thing of like, wow, all these needs that are required. It's kind of like, what, some of it just feels like a disservice in that aspect of a limitation, per se.

Lisa Virtue

Yeah. You know, I volunteer at our local high school when I can, and it fascinates me even when there are mentors like me and some others from the community that can come in and help even one on one sometimes with kids. And there's career counselors that, you know, want the world for all the students. I still see how limited it is in the materials they have, the information they have, and it's a quantity game, right. At high school level and college. And so there's still a push. How many kids are going to college from your high school? How many are going out to secondary education? And so because we're measuring success by those metrics, I do believe we're doing a huge disservice. There's so many capable people that go and get degrees, and then if they had gone backwards in time, like, instead, maybe they'd be doing a trade, which we need.

Right? It's things like that, like trade school. More people in trade school, more women in trade school. I will yell that from the rooftops because it can be a really good career, it can pay well, and we need it as a society. And that's all that. I don't know if you're familiar with the term ikigai from Japan, like, finding what your values are, what your gifts are, and what the world needs from you, and then what does your community, what can they pay you to do? Right? It's a Venn diagram of all of that. And if we were able to help expose kids just to the concept, like, we are not going to figure it all out. When you're young, you have to go through life, too, and, like.

Emily Vermeer

Right.

Lisa Virtue

Figure it out. But if we were just. If they just knew, that's kind of what they're doing. It's like, oh, those are my skills. Those are my gifts. That's what I actually. And then there's what I actually like to do because just because we're good at something also mean we're going to go do it or want to do it doesn't fill our bucket. So, yeah, the human mind and value system is so complex that when we're trying to bucket it all into this very linear educational system, I agree, it can be a big disservice.

And also, I see a lot of times people, when they are finally feeling like they're coming into their own and they're really knowing that what they're doing now is not what they want and they want to go a different path. So much of it's transferable, and it's just how you talk about it and how you brand yourself, really, that can get you those opportunities. But people need to know in your network and even in your family, what you want to do. Right. You've got to have people that understand it, so you have to be able to say it first yourself.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue

Then other people will also advocate for you and understand. But I don't think your grandpa's ever going to. He's at this point.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah, he's. He's stuck in his ways, which is totally fine. You're.

Lisa Virtue

You're a massage therapist forever.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lisa Virtue

I love it. Well, do you have any other resources or takeaways you would like to share with the audience before we wrap up today?

Emily Vermeer

Yeah, yeah. So I actually, this is a perfect time to share. I developed a glow guide, is what I call it, and it helps women specifically discover and amplify what their light is. And so I was given an acronym of GLow, which is go light our world and put together a course. But this glow guide is a great avenue, and it steps you through each one of the letters of what it means to go, what it means to to discover and amplify your light, what the power of community is around you, of our, and then the impact that we have on the world when we actually step into that. So I do have that as a resource for people that are listening in to download and discover or amplify their light, whichever avenue that they're on.

Lisa Virtue

That's beautiful. That ties very nicely with ikigai and all these concepts. Finding your purpose, really. Right. Love it. We'll have that in the show notes. And then how else can people get a hold of you, Emily?

Emily Vermeer

Yeah. So you can find me on Instagram or Facebook. On Instagram, I'm Emily Vermeer. And on Facebook, it's just Emily Vermeer. And I also want run run a women's ministry called Fueled by Faith. So you can find us on our website, our website, people by faith.org dot.

Lisa Virtue

I love it. Is there for that program and community? Is there a certain religious component that people should be aware of or a certain faith that would resonate the best with people?

Emily Vermeer

Yeah. So it's a christian leadership group, community that we get together and we help women just lead, fueled by faith life.

Lisa Virtue

Okay, great. So for all the christian listeners that might be interested, Emily's got a great community for you. Love it. Thank you so much for sharing today. I just always get so empowered when I hear other people's stories and like minded and great tips and takeaways for boundary setting. I think that's going to really resonate with a lot of people. So thank you.

Emily Vermeer

Yeah, I hope so. Thank you for having me on it. So fun.