Lisa Virtue:

Welcome to her career studio. I'm your host and career coach, Lisa Virtue. Here we live by the mantra thrive at work so you can thrive in life because we know you are more than your day job. Each episode includes actionable tips and often mentor stories to not only boost your professional success, but also enhance your personal well being. Join me as we explore ways to ensure your career uplifts your life as you strive to achieve work life harmony. Head to hercareerstudio.com for free resources and coaching services to help support you during career transitions and challenges, such as when you are looking to find and land that next ideal job or promotion or are leading a new team. We're here to support you. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button, and please hit the thumbs up or leave a five star review if you are finding the content useful.

This helps us keep going in our mission to help women in their careers. Thank you so much for your support. In this week's episode, I had the pleasure of interviewing one of my friends and colleagues, Donna McCullough. She is the creator of Claravia Consulting, has her MBA, and has a 15 year background in helping students in the university setting figure out what they're doing next with their career. She is a certified career services provider, global career development facilitator, and she specializes in career exploration and discovery and job search tools. I've had the pleasure of working alongside Donna for organizations and being able to go to lunch with her in person, so I'm really excited for you to hear these gems that she has to share. And this week we're talking about how to help with that overwhelm of the job search. It is so stressful, you guys.

We get it because we live and breathe it every day with our clients. We know how much anxiety it can cause. So I really hope that you can take away these tools for seven tips to stay motivated in your job search. Don't give up. You've got support here at her career studio. We're here to support you and this is why I'm bringing on experts like Donna to help bring these tips alive and help you thrive in your job search. All right, enjoy.

Donna, thank you so much for coming and chatting with us about how to stay motivated in the daunting job search, especially in these times where there's just sometimes thousands of applications, right, that are going in. So why don't we start with talking a little bit about you and your background and how you've come to be a career coach. Awesome.

Donna McCullough:

Well, thank you so much for having me on here. It's so lovely to see you again. A little bit about me I've been doing career coaching career services for a little over 15 years now. And I think like many of us with our careers, we never thought going into our first job or two what it might turn out to be after 15 or 20 years. And that definitely happened with me. I was finishing up my master's degree and I just kept being pulled back into this career employment, working with people realm. And I fell into it very luckily as I was a grad student. I got to start by working part time in a career development office at a university.

And so that's how I got my start. That was about that 15 years ago at this point. And then I've just moved, moved around and moved on from there. And so being a career coach, it's really funny to say I felt like I found my calling by happenstance, but I think a lot of us do, which is nice to be able to talk to people and to find motivation. Now I work on my own, I do consulting. So I love to work with private practice clients. I also love to work with other places where I can contract with to do their career coaching services or workshops and bring my knowledge base to people outside of necessarily a university system. So that's a little bit about my.

Lisa Virtue:

Background and what a great background to.

Bring that forward for your clients.

So today, Donna, I know that you wanted to bring some tips for job.

Seekers who are in the overwhelm of the job search. So let's get into your tips.

Donna McCullough:

One of the tips I have is as you're starting your job search, really strive to set a schedule for yourself. And this could look different depending on your home life, your personal life, how quickly you think you might need to find work, a little, how much more leeway you have. But setting a schedule will help you take away some of those distractions that life is going to bring to you. It'll help you feel a lot more focused and that is very important for our motivation. We all love to know that we've had something on our agenda that we want to do, that we've been able to focus on it, and that we've completed it. So having daily challenges, I think is, especially for someone like me, who I like to kind of line things up, is super helpful. It could be setting a daily checklist and schedule for the job search specifically, or it might just be I'm going to set a schedule for my life as I'm in between jobs so that I can stay present, and I can stay active. And even on those days where I feel like I haven't done too much towards my job search, I know that I have because it's been part of my schedule, and I think that will help.

That helps people as they move on. Otherwise, it just becomes a totally different version of the daily grind. Right. You feel like you're just kind of on a treadmill. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

You're saying, really, let's be disciplined, guys. Exactly.

Donna McCullough:

That's one thing. Another thing I think is super important is to actually visualize yourself where you want to be. What types of jobs would make you super excited, what types of work environments? Is there a place you're trying to move to? And what might you do once you get to move there because you got a job. Right. So this actually, this will help you, in your mindset, stay a little more positive. And the more it's at top of mind, the ideas, the more motivation you will have just to get through some of that discouragement or that drudgery. I love to encourage people. You know, when you were young, like, maybe in your teens, we all had, like, these really cool poster vision boards.

Lisa Virtue:

Of, like, oh, yeah, I used to get magazines back then. And you could cut out the magazine. Yeah, totally. I miss those. Actually, some of my clients do actual vision boards, and I'm like, I need to start asking, where are you getting your pictures?

Are you printing them?

Lisa Virtue:

Are you buying magazines? Stealing them from the hairdresser? What's happening?

Donna McCullough:

I know that is so hard now, to actually create a vision board, you have to figure out, how am I getting these pictures? When I do it with my children, we actually have to go online and find pictures, print them out, cut them out. So however you do it, I am such a proponent of having a hard copy of something. Yes. Have any magazines lying around or if you have anything that you can use or some people are super creative and they can doodle. And however, it's so nice to have that. There's a reason that we did that when we were younger. Right. Having that vision board could be so much fun to do, and it could be kind of a little bit of a brain break as well, and you can just keep adding to it.

I actually, if people have, like, a tack board, that's a really cool thing to do, because then sometimes this keeps changing. Sometimes you realize that there's something out there you didn't know. Right, in all your networking and your research, and then you can make it less static and much more alive. And so I think that would be super motivating if that's something that someone wanted to do.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah.

And I'm a huge fan of Pinterest, but when it comes to things like this, it's not, like, in front of our face enough. Right. It's just. It kind of feels ethereal or far away in a way. So I like your advice of make something tangible, put it in front of your face.

Donna McCullough:

Yeah, I think something that I really love to do. And when I worked with people more in person, on my laptop, on my screen saver, I had, you know, as soon as the screen needed to go blank, I actually had motivational quotes come through. And so that was really cool because as I met with someone in my office and my screen went black, and then it turned to all these really cool motivational quotes. So that's something that someone can do if they're like, yeah, I'm not the, like, I'm not the cut and physical, cut and paste creative type. I would encourage someone to set something like their screensaver to these motivational pieces. So at least when you're around it, I love when you can be active and purposeful, and you make it so that you can kind of absorb it and enjoy it in a more passive way, a lot more natural. Yeah, that's great. One thing that I think is super important to mention is you've got to set your goals.

It is so hard to be motivated to get somewhere if you don't really know where you think you're going. And there's a lot of quotes out there. Right. You don't know where you're going. You might end someplace else.

Lisa Virtue:

Right.

Donna McCullough:

You might end up somewhere place else. And then if you don't know where you're going, who knows? But what you're going to be drawn to. And that could be leading you totally away from kind of where your heart might be lying. Right. And that's part of the not getting distracted part. So it is very important to know some ultimate goals, and this might not be being able to do this right now. Right. This might be part of your research and talking to people and part of that progression.

But if you have an idea of an ultimate goal, even if it's a little fuzzy, then you can start breaking that goal into small step goals. And this is something that is said time and time again. And there's a reason for that. It's because it really does work. Unfortunately, because it's, like, pounded into us, we tend to ignore those things.

Lisa Virtue:

Right.

Donna McCullough:

It's like everybody's saying that that's sexual news. No. There's some things that are really valid. And so this is one that we kind of sometimes have to force ourselves to do. It's easy to have a goal in your brain, maybe on a cool vision board, but please write it down and that will help people break up bigger goals. That seems super overwhelming, which is totally demotivating. Like, you know, every time you try to clean your house or like, whatever, you look around, you're like, this is so. This is so much.

I don't know where to start. Well, you got to break it down, right? First you start with laundry or first you start with this room. So it's this same thing. It's the small steps and make sure those small steps actually lead towards that realm of the bigger goals.

Lisa Virtue:

That's what I see a lot of people struggle with is to understand. Maybe there's an industry they don't understand and where working with a career coach like you or me can really help. That's a lot of people come to me and say, can you tell me how to get to XYZ? Because I'm not there yet, but I want to transition in. Well, you know, what do I need to do to get there? And the breaking it down is absolutely imperative. And I know this is a huge strength coming from the university, studying that you have, working with students that are okay, what entry level job is going to get me to this?

Donna McCullough:

Yes, it is. So, I mean, if we all think about our dream jobs, my guess is that it could be ten, five to ten years away or those are stretch jobs. We want those. We want to be working towards something, right? We're like, oh, this would be so cool. But to picture yourself today making that huge leap to something that's like a couple years away is super overwhelming. And it's so discouraging that I think it's easy for us to just say, I can't even try this. I don't even know where to start. I'm just going to fail anyway.

Well, you probably, if you try to take a leap that big, but setting those small goals, you are going to find those successes. And that is what keeps people motivating, motivated.

Lisa Virtue:

I totally agree.

Donna McCullough:

Very much proven in a lot of different areas, actually career field. One thing that's important is you want to set goals that get you towards kind of your bigger ones, but you need to have a purpose for them, but you also need to track your progress. So goals are amazing. Some goals are so long term or a little more like kind of out there that it's hard to know if we're actually making progress towards anything. That is very discouraging. And that is absolutely the opposite of motivating. Right. It's like if somebody's on a diet and they're trying to eat well every day and they're not like, capturing how they've changed their eating habits because they want to feel healthier inside.

And all of a sudden, a couple months pass and maybe you don't feel it as much, but, oh, my gosh, like, you've worked in a lot more fruits and veggies in your diet and you've been exercising a lot more and you have some other metrics or you've been working with a nutritionist, you will start to see progress. That's not may be the exact ultimate goal, but you know, you're getting there. And so it's a lot the same when you're working with a job search. Right. So one reason to track it is it is a lot more motivating when you see progress. One goal might be, you know, maybe somebody's out there thinking, I do want to get into a new industry, and that is going to be like a midterm goal to get this type of job. But I need a smaller goal. I need some smaller goals to be able to even get in and make those connections.

I'll use LinkedIn. I'm going to research, I'm going to connect. And my goal is to grow my LinkedIn network very purposefully, very genuinely towards this industry. Well, if there's no metric set and if there's no tracking set, how is that going to feel? Not very motivating. Right. I'm on there every day. I keep reaching out. People connect, but I don't.

Right.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, I love this. So this is actually ties into the story of how we met.

Donna McCullough:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue:

Which I would love to share, Donna. So I had physically moved an independent career coach, and one of my goals was I want to connect with local university career services because I want to grow my network physically. I have it virtually around the world with other career coaches. But I'm like, I want to physically, like, go have coffee with people and find out what's going on with university students because that's not my niche. But just to understand, like years from now, what, what are those students going to be needing and just have those great connections. For me, it didn't have anything to do with a job search or trying to get more clients per se. Right. It was about that networking and look at where it's brought us so then Donna and I reached out to you just on LinkedIn.

You were gracious and awesome connecting with me, and they were like, let's go have lunch. And then we hit it off so quickly. And now, since then, we've actually have worked together for companies and, um, have connected each other with opportunities, which is beautiful. So I want to just encourage people, like, think, think differently. Sometimes if you're in a job search or you're unemployed, you get so lonely and it's hard to think, okay, I'm looking for people that can help me, but what about maybe you can help them? Like, I had no idea when I connected with you, Donna, that you were about to go off on your journey of leaving university, becoming an independent freelance coach. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, I've got, here's a company, I'll connect you with them. And then that helped you with that goal. And so it had nothing to do with me reaching out to you.

So I just want to encourage people.

Donna McCullough:

To think outside the box a little.

Lisa Virtue:

Bit when you're in a job search about how to network and think about, yeah, is it the industry that you're interested in? Maybe they're physically close to you and you can just say, I'm looking to connect with people in person because we're in such a virtual world nowadays, or something like that. So what are your thoughts on all of that?

Donna McCullough:

I love that.

Lisa Virtue:

I know.

Donna McCullough:

I was thinking back to how we met, and it was so funny because we met on LinkedIn, and I, at the same time had been thinking, I need to reach out and meet more belko coaches.

Lisa Virtue:

So funny.

Donna McCullough:

The odds that we both lived in these tiny towns.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, exactly. And we're very like minded.

Donna McCullough:

Yeah, it's amazing. And so the world can seem so big and so overwhelming, but when you start to reach out like this, you're going to find that you have a lot more connections to real people that are going to be very genuine than you ever imagined. And that's, I mean, you could call it luck, you could call it hope, but it's planned happenstance. It's when you, like, you really. You had a goal. I had a goal. Neither of us were trying to just, like, kind of that ugly term of networking, like, use the other person for our own gain. We just wanted to make connections and learn and see where it might take us.

And so to have that as one of your, I mean, it is so motivating and it is so fun to reach out to people on LinkedIn and have a coffee chat or go out to lunch or grab tea with somebody. And especially as we get more into the craving, I really want to see people in person again. Right. So much better if you can do that in person. And I love that as a goal. And that's so funny. We both had that. That was over three years ago, I think.

Lisa Virtue:

Oh, my gosh. It hasn't been that long in town.

Donna McCullough:

Wow. And you never know where some of this network you. Right, exactly.

Lisa Virtue:

And you said it beautifully, too, because we're small county is how we connected. Don't limit yourself to, oh, I don't live in a major city. I don't know how I'm going to connect or I'm not in the city of the organization I want. What about similar industry that you're looking to eventually grow into or, you know, people are craving that. And so when you're genuine about it, you'll tend to get response for sure.

Donna McCullough:

Yeah, absolutely. Planned happenstance.

Lisa Virtue:

I'm gonna start using that.

Donna McCullough:

It's a really good way to put it. My favorite things to, to mention when I work with people. And it's an amazing theory that you see all over the place every day. More that later. Yeah. All right, keep going. Okay. So something that you and I did as we were reaching out is we had realistic goals.

Right. I think one of the important pieces about setting goals is you want to keep them realistic. And there's kind of two categories for today that we can talk about realistic. So one of them is you've got to actually be able to do it without just checking the box. So remember, the purpose of the goal. The purpose of your goal was to reach out to people in the career, the university, career field. Right. You had a very specific, very purposeful reason for reaching out, and so you were able to do that.

If you had said, I'm going to reach out to 50 people in a week, that is not a realistic goal in terms of what the purpose was. You might be able to check the box. I did it. I reached out to 50 people. Well, how did that work out for you? Did you get. Right, not you, but how would that work out for you?

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, exactly.

Donna McCullough:

Being realistic is, first of all, something that, you know that you can really genuinely work towards. And a goal that's realistic for what your ultimate steps. Right. All of your goals should be leading you down this path. Motivation gets cut off when these goals start leading you astray or when the only purpose for completing a goal is to check that box saying that you completed it. So each goal needs to have its purpose. The other piece is sometimes we set goals that if it were up to us, we'd feel like they'd be totally realistic. But there's some goals that depend so much on everything but us that it's really hard to count on yourself reaching those goals only as they are.

So, for example, let's see, maybe you want. Maybe your goal is to get a job in two weeks and you have the jobs that you're looking for, right? Because we could all get a job within two weeks. It's the job that you want, right? Well, that's great. Number one, that is an all or nothing goal, right? You either got it or you didn't. And how horrible does that feel? If you reach your two weeks and you're like, I didn't get it, now what? I'm ready to give up. Right. And second of all, getting a job in an industry or in a place within a very set amount of time like that, that's, number one, might not be too realistic, but you're depending on a lot of other factors. You're depending on, who are the employers who are hiring in this career field, in this place? Are they, are the employers available right now? Do they even have those positions? What other things are going on around in the economy? And so to set something very, very specific, that one is an all or nothing and two is really dependent on so many other factors, totally kicks that motivation, because you either made it, right.

I'm not saying don't have a goal of getting a job in this type of job or within this timeframe, but those are those ultimate goals that you've got to realize through those small steps. Part of why I want realistic goals for everybody, and I want those kind of check in point goals, is if you're able to track them, you also know what's going wrong, right? So if you're able to say, oh, yeah, I've been doing all of these, but they're not really bearing any fruit. I've been spending this time and effort and a lot of emotional energy. If you're tracking goals and you realize, okay, this one, the way I'm trying to get to there, it's not gonna work. That. So, okay, so I'm a band geek. I was a band geek all through middle and high school.

Lisa Virtue:

Wait, what instrument did you play?

Donna McCullough:

I played the clarinet.

Lisa Virtue:

I was going to guess the clarinet. I love it. I was going to guess clarinet.

Donna McCullough:

I don't know why you play the clarinet.

Lisa Virtue:

I didn't know there was a look, but maybe there is I was totally.

Donna McCullough:

A band geek, and our director, who I had for seven years, would say something to us. It's when we were playing out of tune, right? And so he's like, he has this beautifully musical ear that a lot of us may have had, not quite at that level, but he'd just be like, oh, it's just tune up. However you do on your instrument. He'd say, it's like sticking your hand in the door and banging it over and over again. This hurts. Why is this happening to me? The same thing with anything that we're doing. Even though goals are right, if you think that you have a goal, that's very valid. But the way that you're trying to get there and you're not seeing progress, and you know you're not seeing progress because you're tracking your goals, that is an indication that the door may be slamming on your hand, and you need to figure out another way to get to those goals.

Lisa Virtue:

Gotcha.

Donna McCullough:

Right?

Lisa Virtue:

Yep.

Donna McCullough:

That can be super hard. Like you said, Lisa, if you're feeling very alone. And so another tip to stay motivated is to have a supportive network to surround yourself with those people. Those are the people who are going to lift you up and motivate you and keep you. They're going to be your cheerleaders. And sometimes that's loved ones for us. Sometimes that's former colleagues or friends or some of those mentors or connections that you may have met along the way as you're doing other networking. But that's the positive energy that people need.

We are not meant to be solitary creatures, especially when we're going through a rough time. So having those people to help you, also, they'll give you really great ideas.

Lisa Virtue:

Right?

Donna McCullough:

They see things in you that you might not see in yourself, so they might be able to give you motivation to pursue things you never thought you would enjoy or qualify for. So that actually led.

Lisa Virtue:

Right.

Donna McCullough:

That was perfect. That led into another tip, I think. Another piece. And we're getting a little bit more on how do you care for yourself to keep yourself emotionally well, to stay motivated, to know that you can keep going. One thing is just to take breaks. We all need that.

Lisa Virtue:

Oh, it makes me so happy on LinkedIn when someone posts, I haven't been on here for a while because I took a much needed break from my job search, and I was like, oh, good, because you. Yeah, your brain needs it, too.

Donna McCullough:

Yes, our brain does. Our emotional capacity. Our emotional capacity is just like any muscle, right? We exercise it and we exercise it and we exercise it. And then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm hurting.

Lisa Virtue:

Rest.

Donna McCullough:

Great. I need some rest. I used to be really good at running. Three times a week, really good at it. Family situation changed. Work changed. I was really stressing out to get my run in, and I was feeling it in my legs and my arms, too.

Lisa Virtue:

I was like, this siegs.

Donna McCullough:

And I really don't like running. I do not do running, as this is my hobby that I love. I do it because it's good for me. I had to trust myself and say, Donna, you could take a break from running, okay. And I was able to start up again a couple months ago, and I was so proud of myself because I was worried that I would never run again because I hated so bad. But, oh, my gosh, I feel so much better. I'm not scared of it anymore. I've been able to work it into my daily or weekly schedule in a lot more practical way, and it's so good for me.

And my muscles are like, thank you, Delana. It's a break for a couple of months. They come back stronger. So it's exactly the same for us mentally and emotionally. It's hard to keep up motivation when you feel it all wainy. Right. So you need to, like, you need to put that all back into the basket again. You've been taking it out of your motivation basket for all these things.

Let it fill up again before you start trying to use it.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. It's good for our family and friends, too, isn't it?

Donna McCullough:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue:

We're all consumed with the job search. Yeah.

Donna McCullough:

Yes. And I think that's part of it. I think part of taking a break is, you know, sometimes we're very hard on ourselves. Like, we're go getters and we have our goals and we want to work towards them, but we don't want to neglect the things that are going to make us better people and make us a happier people. And we don't want to neglect the things or people that we really care about because they need you, too. And so taking a break could be, you know, I really need to go out and have tea with that friend I haven't seen in a while and let yourself just, like, be immersed in the moment you don't need. It's so hard because when something's on our mind that we're really, really concerned, it's hard to turn that switch off.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, we get obsessed.

Donna McCullough:

Yeah, we totally do. Practice being in the moment and practice being present during your breaks. Whether it's out with a friend or on a bike ride or doodling in your doodle book or whatever, practice how to be able to take that mental break. So the last thing I wanted to say was, I think that once you're motivated, like, we want people to stay motivated. We want them to know that they're working towards a goal. Sometimes to be able to do that, you honestly need help, right? And so if people are looking at this thinking, I've been in the job search for a little while. I've tried some of these practices. Please get a career coach.

Please look out to your network to find somebody who knows what they're doing. So to think about my band instructor, right, my band director, who could hear when a note was off by just a little bit, and he's like, that sounds awful. I know exactly what to do. I know exactly how to make this right. I know how to get you back on track. A career coach is the same way. It is our expertise area. Like, we built our career around helping other people with theirs.

So they may be able to find you. You know, if you're looking at this progress that you're trying to make with certain goals and they're not getting anywhere, a career coach is able to do a deep dive and kind of dissect, where might you be finding some barriers. They're able to be that, that cheerleader. I think one of the things that we love most about what we do is, like, we get to cheer people on and find the great things and great strides that they've been taking and be excited with them and geek out with them when they found something so new.

Lisa Virtue:

Very true.

Donna McCullough:

It's super helpful to have someone as a resource who does this professionally, who you can lean on and who can guide you, because motivation isn't going to just stay at a peak. It's not even going to stay halfway up. It's going to ebb and flow. You're going to. Right, you have those up moments and those down moments. So a career coach, a supportive network, those are the people who can help lift your down moments up a little bit so you can keep going and they can make the high ones even more exciting because you can see how much of the progress you're making.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, love that. So there's a lot of people that think they can't afford a career coach, or they say, oh, well, I'm talking to a recruiter. I think it's important to myth bust a little bit about what career coaches do. One is that look for someone that fits your personality for sure.

Right?

You need to, you need to feel comfortable getting feedback from that person. There are, yeah, there's different options. There's group coaching that can be more affordable. There's one on one. You can, you know, different kinds of packages that are out there too. Different levels of coaching. But I totally agree with you that what happens to a lot of people when they come to us after they've been in a search for a long time is, well, I thought I was getting feedback. My resume is perfect.

And then I'll keep asking questions like, well, I'm not getting interviews, so maybe my resume isn't perfect. You know, there's these things that we get feedback on from neutral parties or even LinkedIn, right? Oh, I've got thousands of followers. People are reacting to my posts, they're connecting with me, they're giving me feedback. But why are they motivated to do that? And what kind of feedback are you getting? Is it biased feedback? Is it unbiased feedback? Is it someone that has actually helped people in their career? That's the part that I think can be real struggle for people. Or all my parents told me this or that. Well, we all know that the job search has changed. So if people aren't up to date with like, what is modern, and I'm a huge advocate of AI tools as a tool to help, but the AI is not going to understand you and your goals. Like you said.

And how are you coming across? Like, sometimes it's just pitch of voice rubbing someone wrong in an interview. Like it's these small things that no one has told you.

Donna McCullough:

Right.

Lisa Virtue:

And so it would be not a call, even if it's a complimentary call. And you're like, can you just give me some advice? You know, I know that people like you and I, we are open to things like that where we can help and jump in. That can really unblock you a lot very quickly. Absolutely.

Donna McCullough:

I think something that people get nervous about when they think, oh, okay, so should, should I look for a career coach? Should I work with one? Is sometimes it feels like things are like maybe you're making a huge commitment or you're working in a one size fits all. And I know the way that you and I work is it is an individualized process, whether you're in a small group setting or whether it's one on one.

Lisa Virtue:

Exactly. Yeah, go ahead. I was just going to reiterate, even if it is a group coaching that you or I conduct, we're still giving that individual feedback. And that's so key. And there are some programs out there where it's like, it's an online course that is a generic give you information.

Donna McCullough:

That'S not giving you feedback. No. And a lot of the things that we all do it, we all fall into the traps.

Lisa Virtue:

Right.

Donna McCullough:

And whatever realm you're looking in that we read something or we take a course or we go to a big webinar and everything, that's all that information is probably true. The problem is that if it's so broad, it's not going to be fully true to exactly your circumstance. So everybody has a different career path that they've led so far. They all have different career passions and skills and needs, different ways of communicating. And then they all have, so that's like the past and present. And then they all have different career trajectories and needs out of that and what they might be doing. And so these one size fits all, or these general AI or courses or even really great articles, if you don't know where your differences lie in what you're reading or understanding, where you can say, I see how that works in the big picture, this piece is not going to fit with me specifically. It doesn't mean that that's wrong.

It means that for me, I'm going to have to tweak that a little bit. It can be so discouraging because it's like I'm doing everything right. I took this course or I went to this webinar and the person was amazing with how to structure a resume and what might go into it and how to beat systems and all this. Well, unfortunately, that might not work at every piece of your past and for your goals. And what I love about small group workshops and working in a group is that it's still individual people having their space with the coach, but also getting to make those individual connections with the others in that workshop. And you start getting to see how you are different from other people. Yeah, it's like mind blowing. It's like, oh, not everybody does this or not everybody sees the way I think.

And you get to really appreciate the differences and other professionals and what they're doing. First of all, just person to person level. But second of all, that can help you find where you might stand out differently or where your needs might be totally different and where you're going to have to be careful when you see these, these things that are tailored, where you go, okay, I know for myself I'm a little different here. This is how I'm going to change.

Lisa Virtue:

It for me, yeah, I love that. Any group coaching I get on, it's adjacent coaching. Right. When you're watching someone else, probably have a similar question to you, but like, exactly what you're saying, how do you apply it to you? And I see so that we're just in this world, this knowledge based world of consume, consume, consume content. But then are you actually applying the content? And when you go to actually do it, do you sit there and freeze up, got your resume in front of you, you're like, oh, I just learned five different ways to do this, but what should I do right now?

Donna McCullough:

Right? Yeah, it's for you and me and lots of other career coaches. This is what we do. And so I feel like we're very comfortable in this realm. Right? This is not supposed to be everybody's career focus. So it would be the same as you or me. I'm going to make an assumption that you are not a certified public accountant.

Lisa Virtue:

So I'll just, I am not over there.

Donna McCullough:

But it's like the same as us going and reading online through the IR's website. This is how you do this properly. And then going, oh my gosh.

Lisa Virtue:

And even at chat DBT, they don't know. It drives me crazy. I'm like, why can't I find the answer?

Donna McCullough:

Yeah, chat GPT makes a lot of assumptions, probably. I mean, they're generalized assumptions and they're based off whatever information you give, but they're still assumptions that if you're not, if you don't know yourself well, if you don't have a network to help you through that or a career coach, you may just assume that chat GPT assumed correctly, right?

Lisa Virtue:

Or you don't, you don't know the right process to put it, or right order to put it in, or that's, and that's what you and I have learned and have studied, literally studied over the years. And knowing what recruiters are looking for. Yeah, that's, you know, people can do it, they can find jobs, they can move through their careers without career coaches. But we're talking about those people that are stuck, that are overwhelmed and just need more support. This is another option out there.

Donna McCullough:

Absolutely. Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

I love it. Donna, it's been so nice talking to you. I know we could talk all day long, but we better wrap it up.

Donna McCullough:

It has been a pleasure. I love getting to talk with you about all the career stuff we get to do.

Lisa Virtue:

Oh my God, we need to geek out on it. And we have so many similarities with who we work with, too. Beautiful. So throughout our conversation, I heard seven.

Different tips that you shared. One is to set a schedule to remove those distractions and maintain focus, holding ourselves accountable to our goals. Two is to visualize our success, including creating a physical vision board to have that tangible representation of our goals in front of us so that that can serve as inspiration to keep us motivated.

Three is to set clear and realistic.

Goals, knowing where you want to go and make sure they're realistic and achievable so that you don't get discouraged along the way.

Four is to track those goals and your progress.

So by seeing your tangible progress towards your goals, that helps you maintain motivation as well.

Then there's having a supportive network, which is really imperative.

Number five, number six is to take breaks.

Rest is very necessary for maintaining our long term motivation. And number seven, seek professional help if needed.

So if you are struggling, a career coach might provide the guidance you need.

So how can people get ahold of you? Donna?

Donna McCullough:

Yeah, so you can find me on LinkedIn. Donna McCullough. Or you can also find my website. And so it's Claravia consulting, and I know that you'll put that information up in.

Lisa Virtue:

It'll all be below.

Donna McCullough:

And then Clara via consulting also has. We also have our own page on LinkedIn. So if you. So something about me and Clara Villa, we should. I, through Columbia, repost tons of jobs. Like, I'm on LinkedIn all the time. And so it's jobs from lots of different categories and lots of different places. And so one of the things I use LinkedIn for is to basically, like, be a catalyst for all of these jobs that I'd find and then spread them out.

So hopefully, if you're able to follow LinkedIn, me on LinkedIn, you'll have some of those other job ideas as well that you may never have found. Right. Because maybe your own network wasn't part of it.

Lisa Virtue:

It, yeah, for sure. Love that. All right, I'll let you go today. Go do your beautiful work, spread the love, and help people stay motivated. Thanks, Lisa. Thanks, Donna.