Lisa Virtue:

Lindsey, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with me today and be vulnerable, because a lot of people are not willing to do that in life or haven't exercised that skill, let's say, or that muscle. So I'm really excited to dig into this topic with you and also have you share your story. So why don't we start there? Share your story with the listeners about your career journey and what led you to what you're doing today.

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah, so it starts, I would say, in college. So I majored in the fashion industry. I majored in apparel, merchandising, and I just loved it. I was watching the hills and devil wears Prada, and I was like, that's going to be my life. And once I finished, I moved out to LA for an internship and fell in love with the city. Moved back. I'm from Iowa. Moved back to Iowa.

And after, like, a year, I was like, no, I gotta be in LA. Like, that's where my life is. So moved out here, no friends, no job, no family. Like, just moved out here, moved into a house with a bunch of random strangers, and a month later, I had a job in fashion, and it just went up from there. And within a year, I was working as a national sales manager for an accessories brand, meaning I managed and led a huge group across the country of sales reps. It was about 70 sales reps. I was really young. I was in my mid twenties, and, you know, I just never got, like, the training that I thought I should have as a leader.

Um, and I really loved it. I was, like, living, living my dream life, like, everything I set out to be. When I was watching, like, the hills, I, like, literally someone had come into our office, someone sister, and was like, wow, it's like the hills in here. And I was like, wow, like, it's happening, you know? So I was living this life, but I had really toxic leaders. I didn't understand that at the time because I was so young, and I just thought that's how leadership was, you know, and by proxy, I became a very toxic leader as well. And, you know, the people under me, I was leading them way that I was being led. And, you know, I really have. We'll talk about later.

Done a lot of self forgiveness work through that. But, um, you know, so I just kept going. Kept going. And then the pandemic hit, and that's when I had the time to pause and just be like, who was that person? Like, that's not me. I don't treat people like that. I don't talk to people like that. And I really set out on this self love journey. And through that journey, I was like, this is what's missing.

Like, this is the training we should be getting, you know, in high school and college and leadership training. Like, it's really, really important that you're in your values and that you're loving who you are and what you're doing. So that is what I have set out to do now is, you know, just empower women to love themselves as leaders because there's so much outside noise that can affect that. And it's so important to just stand true to ourselves and stand in our power. So, long story short, that's, you know, really what happened. And I really hate saying that I was a toxic leader, but it is the truth. And, you know, that's where, that's what got me to where I am today.

Lisa Virtue:

Thank you so much for that. I can relate to so much because I was in leadership from 18 years old. Right. Just being put into those roles or having opportunity and people inviting me into them. And, yeah, it makes a huge difference. The examples that we have that we're looking to. I'm so curious. I have a question.

Yeah. Is just random because the hills and double Prada can totally relate to all that, too. So much fun. But I'm curious if the toxic leadership, with what you see in entertainment, did you see a correlation at all? Like, this felt normal because I also saw some of it on tv.

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah. And as I. Cause I still watch the hills probably, like once a year. And, like, I go back and, you know, you see the people in the fashion industry and, like, the way that they would talk to people and treat people and, you know, the things that, like, Kelly Cotrone would say, like, you're selling your soul. And I just thought, like, that's how the fashion industry was. Like, we're selling our soul to live this life, and it just doesn't have to be that way. Like, we can be kind and nice and still be successful. So, yes, it's definitely.

Especially, this was like the early two thousand ten s. I just thought, you know, that's how it was, and I think that's how it was back then.

Lisa Virtue:

Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me, too. Um, and I can relate so much in that way of once we know ourselves deeper and we have a good understanding of our values. Like, you're saying how much that helps us be a stronger leader, really.

Lindsey Maza:

Right.

Lisa Virtue:

Versus the opposite of just trying to scramble and what is expected of me and what should I do? And all this leaders telling me that that team member is not good enough. So now I need to rag on that team member. But actually, should you be advocating for that team member instead? Right. There's so much that goes into it. And like you said, especially young 20 somethings or however old you are when you get into that first leadership role, just. We're thrown in.

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

Even if they say there's a guidebook or onboarding. No, you're still thrown in.

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah. And I really was. Overnight, they had fired the manager before me, and we're like, all right, you're next up. Like, you're heading to a trade show this weekend. Like, you have to learn everyone's names. You have to learn the line, you have to learn how to train sales reps on it. And I was like, okay, you know, of course I was excited about it, but, yeah, you just get thrown in and wild.

Lisa Virtue:

So now the work that you do, tell me a little bit more about how you approach this. So if a woman comes to you and say, okay, I can totally relate to what you're saying, Lindsey, and how do I start? What do I do first?

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah. So, I mean, I have a system that I take them through, but I think it's really, really, we start with just being self aware and working on kind of getting back into our bodies and learning mindfulness and just knowing how to own ourselves and reflect and just learning how to be aware of our actions. Because I think a lot of times when you're go, go, go, and you have those models of leadership, you're just going about the motions. And I think it's really important in the first step is that we stop and start reflecting and, you know, figuring out where that's coming from. And then we move into self forgiveness, which is really starting to forgive yourself for those past actions or, you know, just any way that you thought leadership had to be. And it's just so important in that step because I think, you know, we just all thought we had to be a certain way, and then we can move into, you know, just reclaiming our power and building it up through the steps from there. So it's really just starting with soul awareness, and we're just not really taught that, and we're kind of taught to ignore our own instincts and intuition, and it's really just getting into that flow.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. So many professional development courses or leadership out there. It's talking about, here's the skills you need to develop, or here's the communication style you need to understand about yourself, but what you're honing in on is, like, really understanding even how your body is moving through moments. Right. And that physicality of it all and not sequestering what's naturally going on with you. Is that how you would describe it?

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah. And, you know, I think when we're go, go, go, we really push down. You know, they might, like, bubble up and be like, was that right? Was that. But then you just have to keep going, and you just push it back down, and it's really just learning how to process that and move through that. And I do call self love the skill behind the skills, because it is important to learn these really, you know, self management skills, for sure.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. I was just talking to a client today about some things she thought she needed to improve. And every time I ask, okay, where is that coming from? Or is there an old story or an experience and you think that's what you need to do? No, no, I don't know where it's coming from. Well, if we figured out there was some. Some things not related to work that were in her childhood, so it's creating this story in her brain, and it was fascinating because then it was, okay, how do we. And physically, you know, there's so many studies now, too, of some different physical things you can do throughout the day to change your neural pathways, to rewrite that narrative so that you're not stuck in the same behaviors. Right. Which can cause all sorts of things.

We've got digestive issues. We've got anxiety attacks, like, all sorts of things are exhibiting for people when they're just. Yeah, like, not paying attention to that. So for her, it was fascinating because as we were moving through it, then it became, oh, why do I feel like I need to do that? I'm actually good at this thing. There's not a gap, but my brain thinks from a different story that's unrelated that we need to do that. And so it came down to more of that love. Right. That, like, self confidence that you are doing what you need to do in this moment, too.

You are aligned, and look how you are exhibiting those things. So even having that time to process and talk about it, I know, can be really valuable for people.

Lindsey Maza:

Exactly. And it's like, we're not really. Like I said, we have so many outside voices, and, you know, a lot of people put their worth and their identity into their jobs and their career and what they achieve. And it's really like, what we do in self love work is removing that identity from your work, because that could be taken away tomorrow. But who are you, you know, how do you love yourself outside of being a leader, outside of your job?

Lisa Virtue:

Mm hmm. For sure. Yeah. Oh, man. Is there any other tips or takeaways you'd give people that are struggling with some of this that they can start right away?

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah, I would, definitely. I know we've talked about it a few times, but self forgiveness is so important, and it doesn't have to be, you know, this big step that we can do. It can be in small moments throughout the day, because I think I, you know, especially career gals, kind of just don't see themselves as humans, and we are humans, and we are going to make mistakes, so how can we just forgive ourselves throughout the day? And, you know, and that really helps with your growth mindset. But I also think it's really helpful to model that to other people, because when you are acting as a perfectionist, everyone around you believes that they have to be that way, too. So how can we forgive ourselves for the small little mistakes and be more vulnerable through those mistakes, too? For sure. I would. Also, there's this thing that I do with my clients, and it's called the power list, and it is writing down eight things that you love about yourself that don't pertain to the way you look and that don't pertain to your job, because, as I just mentioned, you are someone outside of your job, outside of being a leader. And it is important to have that identity, and it's important to love those characteristics about yourself.

So build that powerless. Because, you know, when you're feeling imposter syndrome or you're just feeling like, who am I? You can always just refer back to that list and what makes you powerful, because it's all just going to be a unique list to ourselves. And it's so, so important to build that for yourself. And then I always think celebrating yourself is so important, and it's easy to say, and it's so much harder to do. So I really encourage my clients and myself, I have a timer that goes off every Friday to celebrate the week, a self love celebration. And I encourage them to do it a few ways because I think over time, you just forget about the small things you accomplished, you know? And this does also help with confidence and self trust and that imposter syndrome. When you can refer back to this list, you're like, wait, I did do this before. I have done this, you know, so I always encourage them to write down one personal thing that you did this week that you are celebrating and then something at work that you did.

And I always encourage this to be more tangible and then, you know, like write down percentages or just anything that was accomplished and then celebrate someone else. And that can. You can write it down in your journal or you can just go to that person and celebrate them and hype them up as well because that's so important as being a leader is to just celebrate everyone around you, too. And I think this is really important. You know, when you have a review or your annual. Annual review, monthly review, one on ones, you have this list of celebrations that you can bring to the forefront. So I always just encourage a weekly celebration and then even a daily celebration, I think is so important. So those are the three, you know, that I think are so important to do every day that builds your trust in yourself, the love and the confidence within yourself as a leader.

Lisa Virtue:

I love that. It's so true looking. Just even the act of writing it down builds your confidence. The fact that you forced yourself to think about yourself, right?

Lindsey Maza:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue:

And nobody else is going to do it for us. Yeah, well, my work will speak for itself. No, it won't.

Lindsey Maza:

And you forget then you forget all the things. You forget all the small things that you accomplish. So when you are wanting a promotion or something and they're like, okay, well, tell us what you've done for us the last year. And you're like, okay. You know, and it was things. Yeah, I did. I did stuff, you know, and like, here's the numbers to prove it. But when you have those small little things every single day, it just boosts your confidence so much.

Lisa Virtue:

Yep. And that also feeds into like a gratitude. Practice is very similar. Right. So you're recognizing the positive. And then as a career coach, I love this because now you can also add it to your resume. You're not going to go, what did I do? I don't remember the metrics. Like, you have all of that at the ready if you need a resume, reviewed so many good things, and then it builds your confidence because then, like you said, you can look back at it and it will help, you know, your work won't speak for itself.

You have to vocalize it or write it down. But then it does speak for itself. So people worry like, oh, I feel so boastful or I don't want to, you know, sound cocky or that I did all these things. Well, it's facts, people. Exactly. But you have to take that act of writing it down. Otherwise, like we said, you're going to forget it or it's going to be there when you need it. Yeah.

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah. And as women, it is so hard for us to celebrate ourselves because we, you know, we are told that we're being boastful or bragging if we even say one cool thing that we did this week, you know, and, you know, that's obviously a whole separate conversation, but it's just so important for us to just stand in our power and recognize our worth and what we're bringing to the table. And, you know, that's what self love can do for us.

Lisa Virtue:

Do you have your clients do anything about, like, you're so good about being vulnerable, even coming on a podcast and saying, you know, I was a toxic leader, and I know that you push your message out there and your story, and it's hard. That's hard work to do that, but I'm sure very therapeutic. Do you have clients that follow suit and also do things like that? Is that something that helps them to admit that? What. What is your take on that?

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah. And it's, you know, I think that comes from each step that we do in the layers of leadership system. And it just. Even sitting down and saying, I forgive myself for, and building that self compassion for yourself just, like, naturally helps you be more vulnerable. And I've seen that with my clients, they bring it into the workplace, and it just helps lift everyone else around them because they are more vulnerable because they can see themselves more as humans, so they're seeing other people as humans, too. So it's really just going through the steps. But I think just, you know, sitting down and going, like, building a power list, forgiving yourself, doing the gratitude work, it just helps build this vulnerability because you do have to look at yourself, and that's scary and not always easy to do, but it is just so important because we're always going to be leading from ourselves. So if you can't be vulnerable with yourself, if you can't face what's going on with you and love you, the good, the bad, and the ugly, and accept yourself as you are, then, yeah.

So I think it's just going through these steps helps you be more vulnerable. And I've seen it, and it is important work, and I've seen how it helps other organizations, like the organizations my clients work in, just, you know, through the way that they lead their team.

Lisa Virtue:

Yes. Like you said at the beginning, I wish there was more of this and it was more standard. That would be beautiful. Oh, I love it. Thank you so much for your tips today, Lindsey. They're fantastic. How can people get a hold of you.

Lindsey Maza:

Yeah. So you can follow me. I'm mostly on Instagram at the self love knowing with the kknowing, the selflove knowing and also just www.theselfloveknowing.com. and you can just email me or get on the email list there or follow me on Instagram. And we really talk about these more like feminine leadership qualities and authenticity and vulnerability and. Yeah, it's just, I think it's going to change the world.

Lisa Virtue:

I agree. Superpowers, they really are. Yeah. It's amazing. Well, thank you again and keep doing your powerful work. I love it.

Lindsey Maza:

Thank you. Thanks for having me.