Lisa Virtue:

It all begins with an idea. Maybe you want to launch a business. Maybe you want to turn a hobby into something more. Or maybe you have a creative project to share with the world. Whatever it is, the way you tell your story online can make all the difference.

Vanessa, I'm thrilled to talk to you today, because when we met and you told me your story, it was very captivating and also inspiring, and I think, in a way, nurturing for so many souls out there, but in a way, that might be surprising to some of the listeners. So I'm really excited to dig into that with you today. So why don't you just start by telling everyone a little bit about you and your background and why we're talking today?

Vanessa Cardenas:

Oh, why we are talking today. I love it. I am so excited for our conversation, Lisa. We had such an amazing conversation off recording, and now we get to do it for the benefit of all your listeners. Oh, it's going to be so great. So, who am I, and why am I here? Well. Hmm. That's an interesting, interesting question.

Well, first off, my name is Vanessa Cardenas, and I am a betrayal recovery specialist. What? What is that? A betrayal recovery specialist? Yes. Why? Because I went through betrayal. Now kind of have to understand a little bit of my background. You see, I was addicted to certainty. I thought for sure that if I checked off all the boxes as a woman, I would be inoculated from anything terrible happening to me. Boy, I was so wrong. I was absolutely so wrong.

And I made it all the way to the c suite. I got there, and it was, oh, it's glorious up here because I still am a c suite executive, but I am a betrayal recovery specialist, and I help those that have been betrayed work through it because it affects every aspect of your life. In my particular case, it was intimate partner betrayal. My husband of over two decades sat me down in Central park and said, there's something I need to tell you. And I turned to look at him, and it was in slow motion. And he said three words to me, and my whole world completely shattered and changed in an instant. I've met someone. Oh, my goodness.

Oh. It seemed like everything I worked for, everything I did, all the checkboxes I did, just, poof, they were gone. And I fell into such despair and such darkness. Now, not for nothing, I'm a smart woman. I have a psychology degree. I made it all the way to the c suite. Why was this happening to me? And why was it affecting me the way it was? Why couldn't I just, you know, put on my shoulder pads and I dig in and pick myself up and do what I needed to do? Now I couldn't. I couldn't, and I couldn't wrap my head around it and why I was suffering the way I was.

And I did a colossal mistake. Oh, I made such a mistake. I thought I could do it myself. I really did. I was smart. Why not? Why couldn't I do this myself? And it was only until I asked for help. Months I wasted. Months and months I wasted until I actually asked for help.

And I recognized and realized that you so need help, and you so need support around you, especially in your career. My assistant knew something was up. I mean, I came into work, you know, trying to hide the fact that I hadn't slept.

Lisa Virtue:

I bet assistants are phenomenal, by the way. There's not enough respect paid.

Vanessa Cardenas:

No, not at all. Not at all. She would see my bloodshot eyes, whether that's lack of sleep or all the crying that I've done. She would see my lip quiver when somebody asked me a very innocent question. How's your husband? Did he enjoy the game? Quivering? And I'd just be like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Keep it together.

Lisa Virtue:

Keep it together.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Keep it together. Keep it together. And she was actually one that really encouraged me. She came, she goes, I've been with you for ten years. I know something's up, and you don't want to share it, which is fine, but you really need help. You need help. It's starting to affect everything.

Lisa Virtue:

Wow. Like an intervention.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yes. Beautiful, single intervention. But I needed it. I needed somebody else to see me. To see me. Not the version that everybody wanted me to be and everything else, but see me, that I was human, that I was hurting, and give me a little bit of encouragement of. It's okay, it's okay. Yes.

You're in a leadership position. You're supposed to have all of the answers. You don't have the answer for this. Ask somebody else who might have the answers. And once that unlocked for me, once I had that permission. Oh, you know, I'm a student by nature, and I just gravitated to every single guru about betrayal and guilt and shame and just picked and choose what I loved. I about each of their methodologies, because with betrayal, it's as unique as your fingerprint. It truly is.

Every single relationship is unique. And it's really challenging to get put into a square hole when you're around peg and you really need that permission and that graciousness to pick and choose what feels right, what sticks, and what you just need to toss. It doesn't quite feel right. And that was years ago. Years ago. I can't believe it was years ago. And I was blessed to work with some of the greats. And one in particular saw me, like, really saw me.

And I was also part of a support group. I'm a natural leader. I just am. I'm in the C suite for a reason. And I would go into these support groups and I would suddenly lead them. I was the ambassador sponsor of everyone else. And I loved it. I did.

I loved helping. I loved feeling. Feeling connected with other people and seeing the relief that they got when they saw me transforming and really stepping into who I was meant to be. And this particular guru pulled me aside and said, not for nothing, Vanessa, you're really good at this. Like, you are really good at this. You really need to take that psychology degree as well as all of that knowledge that you grabbed from everyone else, and you had to live through experience. You have wisdom, and you would be selfish to keep it to yourself. I really encourage you to go out there.

Now, that was not without its challenges. Because for me to go home and tell my husband, yes, I'm still married to my husband, hey, I'm going to go out there and just tell everybody that you cheated on me.

Lisa Virtue:

Right.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Or I'm going to write a book that's all about it. Or I'm going to create a Facebook group that talks about betrayal and erectile dysfunction. You're okay with that? Yeah. But dare I say, he sees who I am now, and he's known me. I'm going to show my age. 40 years.

Lisa Virtue:

Wow. What a relationship.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yeah, what a relationship. I mean, we've been through the highs and the lows and the infertility and the treatments and all of the nuances that life throws at you. And that's why the betrayal seemed to really affect me in such a profound way. We had been through. I had been pregnant three times. I only have two children. So we had been through that loss, and we had been through the sudden loss of people close to us and things of that nature life. But this.

This betrayal was really affecting me. And it was only until I went through that journey that I realized throughout my life I had had those micro betrayals, those little betrayals throughout my entire life, starting at childhood. But we didn't have the language to articulate what we were feeling. And most of the time, the adults around us diminished it. You know, when our best friend in the second grade, our best friend who had been our best friend since kindergarten, you know, suddenly turned around and said, I'm not going to be your friend anymore.

Lisa Virtue:

My daughter's eight. She's in the thick of that. Oh, and it's so devastating.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yes, it's so devastating when the adults around us, minimize that hurt. That hurt stays with us. And I didn't realize that I had all of these little micro betrayals. Even in my career. Someone would take my, you know, I'd share my idea during lunch. I was so excited because you can tell I got a lot of energy. I'm so excited about my idea, and I can't wait to tell the bosses about my idea. And we're going to save so much money, and we're going to do this, and we're going to do that and this and that.

And suddenly somebody else is pitching my idea to the boss who loves it, and it's suddenly their idea, and it's like, wait a second. I told you that that was my idea. Why did you take that? Well, you didn't say anything to me. You didn't say that it was confidential or anything. I thought it was a good idea, so I took it to the boss, but it was mine. You took my idea? You took something from me.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah.

Vanessa Cardenas:

You betrayed me.

Lisa Virtue:

Yep. Yeah. It's fascinating because as we. When we spoke the first time, I was thinking about the word betrayal is something that's not. It's not really ingrained in our vocabulary. It feels so strong, but it is so applicable. I was thinking back in my own career journey, I was betrayed on multiple occasions, and it's so devastating. That's when that trust breaks on a team.

Right. So being able to label it, I think, is a really healthy way to be able to know how to navigate through it when you recognize it as that which you're saying, too, even with children, like, being able to identify it, recognize it, and then have the tools to navigate through it. Oh, so powerful.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yes. Yes. Because usually in an intimate partner situation, it's referred to as cheating. You wouldn't quite say your work colleague cheated on you, right? It doesn't quite take the same. It doesn't feel quite the same. My coworker betrayed me. Now, that's different. That's something to wrap around and get that validation of.

Hey, wait a second. Something just happened here. You know, I feel icky.

Lisa Virtue:

I was saying, you can feel it, like, in your bones when you say that. You can just feel it. And you can imagine yourself in that person's shoes when they tell you that, because we've all been there. We've all had that feeling. And why is it so hard to work with this person? Hmm. Well, if you could start labeling it. Well, they actually betrayed me, and we need to work through that part. Can you work together or not? We'll get into that in a minute.

Like, how do you know when to leave? And should I stay or should I go? Right.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yeah, exactly.

Lisa Virtue:

To talk about that with you. Yeah. Cause it's in all of our relationships. Should I stay or should I go? What kind of boundary should I draw here? Or is it something we can work through? That's what I love about you. Your plot twist. I'm still in my hubby.

Vanessa Cardenas:

I still am. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm still in the C suite, even though there was a lot of a trail to get here. I got a lot of knives in the back. That's okay. That's okay. Because it. Dare I say? Dare I say.

And when I say it on stage at keynote speeches, people are just like, oh, what? I'm better for the experience. I truly, truly am. The woman that is in front of you is completely different than the woman I was ten years ago.

Lisa Virtue:

I love this woman.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Oh, yeah. I love her fierce. She takes no crap from anybody. And I'm myself. I am my authentic self. The coat that I wear, it's not even a coat anymore. I took off the coat because I had so many different coats and I had so many different capes. Because when we are conditioned to be everything to everyone, we feel that we need to be a little different with every single one.

And we lose ourselves along the way, and we don't even realize it until we get shattered, and then we don't even recognize ourselves anymore because we've stepped into this new beauty that is glorious. That is amazing. We can look in the mirror and just be like, wow, look at that. Look at you. Look at you. You're pretty amazing. We become our own cheerleader. We become just engrossed with who we actually are.

So, yes, my husband got a new woman. He did. He got me. He got me completely different. And we got to fall in love all over again.

Lisa Virtue:

Wow. That's incredible. So, before we get into some of the tips. Excuse me. My throat today keeps going so, like, it's the eclipse day. I don't know if that's messing with my sinuses.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Of course, depending on where you were, if you felt the earth peak on Friday.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, not me, but, yeah, exactly. The earth's moving and shaking.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

Before we get into, like, tips and some of your journey of how you work through that, I'd love to back up for a second and talk about, what are some red flags, people? So we're talking about labeling it, knowing there's betrayal. Was there anything you could see coming, either at work or with your personal story of, if I had stepped back, I could have seen some of the betrayal signs or symptoms, or is it a. In your experience, when you're working with people, is it more of an immediate shatter point? Like, there was no way they could have expected it? What have you seen there?

Vanessa Cardenas:

It's all over. It's absolutely all over. Some have little itty bitty red flags all the way through. But again, it's 2020 is hindsight, because when we're in the intoxication of love, we don't see a lot of things. We have rose colored glasses on. We, you know, and we. We ignore those little things, those little irritants that we're like, we dismiss them and we do it at work as well. Yeah, he always leaves his coffee cup in the sink.

You know, that really irritates me. But if we focus on it, if we zero in our attention on it and it. We make it a bigger thing than it is, you know, then suddenly we. We. We assign an emotion to an object. We assign. He pisses me off every time he leaves that coffee cup in the sink. Really? Is that what we're talking about? We're actually talking about a bigger thing? Yes.

He leaves his coffee cup in the sink and he piles his work on me, but we fixate on the coffee cup. He thinks I'm going to wash his coffee cup for him because he's always leaving his work on my desk. See how we make those connections? So I'm really cautious with looking backwards after the betrayal and looking for those red flags, because all we're doing is beating ourselves up. And what I can definitely say, and this was a really hard lesson for me to learn. It took me a lot of months to learn it. I'm going to give it to you in 60 seconds. And it was profound. And it might not resonate with you right at this moment, but there will come a moment where you will remember.

You know what? I listened to Vanessa's podcast with Lisa, and Vanessa said this. And at the time, I thought it was no way. But now I remember what Vanessa said. And yes, though something terrible happened to you, it wasn't about you. It wasn't about you. The colleague that leaves work on your desk or shares your idea with the boss, it's their own insecurity. It's their own issue. Has nothing to do with you.

It truly doesn't. It feels very personal. And we have to hold a q tip. A q tip. Like you clean your ears with a. A q tip. Q t I p. Quit taking it personally wasn't about you.

My husband's betrayal had nothing to do with me. Oh, that was a really hard concept for me to wrap. No. I immediately thought of everything that I did wrong or things I didn't do or nagging or not nagging or this or that. Whatever it was, any excuse to put the blame on me. Oh, it came right at me.

Lisa Virtue:

Yes. Especially women. Right.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue:

Because I guess culturally, I don't. Historically, in our. From past generations, it just. So much blame has been put on the female partner or the female figure or the woman at work. And so all of a sudden, we. We carry that with us, and so that's the first thing we do. Right. And I'm a huge proponent of, like, oh, we should always look inside and make sure we're setting our boundaries, et cetera.

Of course, there's all of that. But when it comes to something like this, when it is betrayal and there's no excuse. Right. There's something that's so harsh that, yes. Being able to just kind of out of body experience is the way I sometimes describe it. Like, pull yourself out of it and look at it objectively down. Versus the woman that goes home, of course, is crying, sobbing, and no matter what relationship this is. And she's thinking, I should have, I should have, I should have.

Absolutely. We've all been there. Yeah. So much weight. And by the way, I don't see men doing that.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Oh, God, no. Men don't do it at all. Because men. Men have a skill. They have a skill that is so amazing that they are able to put everything in its own compartment and just. They tuck it away. They just.

Lisa Virtue:

Mentalization.

Vanessa Cardenas:

They're so skilled at that. Whereas women, we feel everything and everything intertwines and meshes, and we look. We look for those patterns and we look for every. We look for all those signs and those red flags and this and that, and what did I miss? And we put all that pressure on us unnecessarily. Unnecessarily. Because, again, Vanessa said, even though something terrible has happened to you, it wasn't about you. It wasn't about you.

Lisa Virtue:

I love it. So, first tip, wrap your head around that mindset.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it's challenging. I'm telling you. I heard it, and I was like, yeah, you know, now, come on. Of course it was about me. It has to be about me. You know, I took it all on.

I took on the shame and the guilt and all of it. And betrayal is different than grief and loss. Grief. There's elements of it. But there's a big difference with grief. You've lost someone. You've lost them. They've moved on to the, you know, they're gone.

They're permanently gone. Whereas with betrayal, person's right next to you, you're faced with them kind of all the time, whether that's intimate partner betrayal or at work. Because unless you decide to leave your position because of the betrayal, you're kind of stuck facing them all day long. And that's challenging in and of itself, and we have to learn how to navigate that for ourselves. And you talked about those boundaries that we put in place to protect ourselves and also to kind of let the people around us know. Yep, you got me once. Now I'm on to you. Now I know not to talk in front of you, you know, so that's gonna make it a little awkward, but, you know.

Lisa Virtue:

Yep. And now I know.

Vanessa Cardenas:

And, yeah, now I know.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

Boundaries are just so people know how to interact with us.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Exactly. Exactly. What we're going to do based on what you do. What we're going to do.

Lisa Virtue:

Yep.

Vanessa Cardenas:

That's all, you know, you want to behave that way, that's fine. But here's what I'm going to do. If you behave that way.

Lisa Virtue:

Right. Okay. So you were in the C suite. You had an assistant who was incredible, paying attention, telling you you've got to go get some help, and nudging you. It sounds like there are. I can imagine, so many tough days at work. I'm curious, because this podcast, we talk a lot about this intersection between work and life. Right? Which is what is so beautiful about your story, because it was the thick of both of it.

Sometimes when people. I'll give my mom as an example. She had five children, tons of drama, things going on. She had betrayal from my father, all sorts of stuff, you know, in their personal life. She loved going to work. She said it was her safe space. Now, she wasn't in a leadership role. And she also said, I don't want to be in a leadership role.

And I think it's because at home, she was amazing. She was very much leadership, and that was not her strong suit at work. So I'm curious for you, and looking at this situation, sometimes people will dive into work wholeheartedly when they're dealing with personal crises or personal issues. And other times, people can't do effective work. Right. Everyone deals with it differently with their career versus when they're having personal crises. So, for you, what was that like?

Vanessa Cardenas:

I bounced all over the place described it so perfectly. One month, I'd be like, energizer Bunny, and all into work. And then other months, I'm like, I can't focus on it. I can't look at anything. And that's because of the healing journey of whatever we were working on at the moment and what was really, really painful for me. And again, it's kind of back to those questions where somebody innocently would say, oh, you and your husband going to x, y, and z. And I'd be like. I'm like, oh, my God, now you've reminded me of him.

And now we have to go to an event together. And we didn't let the toothpaste out of the tube. No one knew, other than our children. Our families didn't know. Like, we went to family events, and he'd have to really prep me in the car. It's okay. It's okay. No need to cry.

I'm right here. I'm right next to you. I'll be right here. I'm not going anywhere. Stay in the moment. Stay in the moment. Stay in the moment. And he would have to prep me before we would go in, and somebody would say something, and he would see it on my face, and he'd be immediately at my side and like, oh, Vanessa, I need you over here.

Or, oh, somebody's blah, blah, blah, whatever it is, to pull me away so that I could compose myself. The amount of times I spent in public bathrooms at events was ridiculous. The second something would happen, I'd hightail it to the bathroom because I'd be like, okay. Within the confines of the toilet and the stall, I could cry. I could get out all the emotion that I was suddenly feeling, and I could breathe, and I could remind myself to stay present. Stay in the moment. Don't go into the past. Don't look to the future.

Stay in the moment. Stay in the moment. Stay in the moment. Compose myself and come out, you know? And that's an area where we think that everybody else is paying attention to us. And a lot of times, they're not. They're so wrapped up in their own stuff that they don't even recognize it. That's why I'm so grateful to my assistant, who is like, yeah, there's something wrong. You know, I don't mean to pry, and I don't want to pry, but there's something wrong.

You're not yourself. Because she sees me every single day, and the key point is, she cares. That's a really big difference. The circle around you has to cradle you when you're hurting. They have to cradle you.

Lisa Virtue:

We have to let them.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Oh, yes. That's a key point, too. We have to let them in.

Lisa Virtue:

That's so hard.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Oh, my gosh. Yes. Because we feel that judgment, because we have our own judgment. My judgment was, how could you let this happen? How could you not see it? How could you what? You completely blindsided. Are you blind? What's wrong with you? And, oh, my nasty chick voice on my shoulder. Oh, she beat me down. She beat me down.

Lisa Virtue:

How do you change that voice?

Vanessa Cardenas:

You want my technique?

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, I would love it.

Vanessa Cardenas:

You love it? All right. Involves a mirror and it involves post it notes. Now, these post it notes I rewrite every single month, and I've done so for years. Now. This was a technique that one of my gurus shared with me. And again, there are things that are shared with you that feel really good, and other things are like, yeah, no, I don't like that. This one felt really good to me. And I subsequently share it with my clients.

Some love it and embrace it, and others are like, yeah, no, I'm not going to do that. For me, it was really hard for me to look in the mirror. I was so judgmental of myself, I cut myself apart. Ooh, I got a new wrinkle here. Ooh, my hands and just everything. I destroyed myself. Every morning when I looked in the mirror, you didn't see the nasty chip voice. So this technique came to me, and I loved it.

And it involves a post it note. So the first post it note, you write. And again, I've written mine. And you start with your name, whether it's your nickname or your given name. Our names are the most beautiful word in the english language other than our children's names. So you start off with Vanessa. In my case, Vanessa, you say your name, and the first one is, I'm proud. I'm proud that you.

And then you finish it. You write seven different sentences for that. So, Vanessa, I'll read you off mine. I just rewrote these on the first of the month. I write, rewrite them on the first of the month. So they have changed over the course of the years. But to give you and the audience some suggestions, these are mine. You're more than welcome to take them, but come up with your own as well.

Vanessa, I'm proud that you picked yourself up. Vanessa, I'm proud that you asked for help. Vanessa, I'm proud that you took a risk. Vanessa, I'm proud that you stepped into who you were meant to be. Vanessa, I'm proud that you wrote not one, but two books. Vanessa, I'm proud that you love unconditionally. Vanessa, I'm proud that you live your life by your own design, with purpose, on purpose. Powerful.

Every single morning, I look in the mirror and I say them to myself. I need to see myself saying these things. I need to believe these things. And that's why I rewrite them every single month. Very different each time. Just what I am proud of. So that's the first one. The second one is, and this one's a tough one.

This one's really, really tough. And this involves a lot of soul searching. And you will cry. You will cry. But the crying is cleansing. It's a cleansing cry. Again, your name, in my case. Vanessa, I forgive you.

Vanessa, I forgive you. Seven different sentences, very, very powerful. Really hard. Really, really hard. Because there's so much baggage you carry. Much baggage you carry. So every single morning, you look in the mirror, you say your name, and seven sentences that start with, I forgive you. And then the third one, my favorite, my favorite one again, your name, my case.

Vanessa, I commit to. Vanessa, I commit to. In my case. And my first one, and this one has always been, always been all these years later, because it's my favorite one, I commit to you to put yourself on the list. It's something that we as women forget to do. We have our to do list, and we forget to put ourselves on the list. So I commit to you to put yourself on the list.

Lisa Virtue:

Add to that. Also, when we make lists, like, I have clients talk about their network or who they can reach out to or who wants the world for them, there's a list no one ever puts themselves. There's that list, too.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yes, yes. Absolutely. Put yourself on the list.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Mm hmm. Make sure you know how important you are, because you absolutely are and you're fierce. I love that.

Lisa Virtue:

Yes. That's why you're listening to this podcast.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Love it, love it, love it.

Lisa Virtue:

Okay, I have a final big one, big question for you, which is, and this can apply at the workforce, too. When or how do you choose to stay or to go?

Vanessa Cardenas:

Well, in the case of intimate partner betrayal, there's three elements that you need. The first, you need clarity. You need to know exactly what's in front of you. What are you faced with? What are you deciding to do? Because if you're wishy washy, I'm going to stay. I'm going to go. I'm going to stay. I'm going to go. I'm going to stay and go, or I'm not quite sure what happened or whatever it might be.

If you don't have the clarity, it's really hard to make a decision. Truly, truly is. Then you need to have freedom. You need freedom to choose to stay or to go and really embrace that freedom and know that freedom, own that freedom, that you have the choice to stay or to go. Sometimes the choice is taken from you. Yes, that does happen. Of course it does. But we're talking about if you are in a position where you are choosing whether to stay or to go, it's the freedom to have that choice.

And the third one's really hard. You need to have freedom from fear. Fear plays a huge part in your life. And how you tame that fear controls how you enter through your life and continue through your life, whether it's in work or in your relationship. If you have an element of fear, of the unknown, oh, you know, if I leave, what will become of me? What will become of him? What will become of our children? And you live in this constant state of fear. It's hard to make any kind of decision in that state. Same thing at your job. You know, some people feel it's really convenient.

Oh, I don't like this. I'm going to get up and I'm going to leave. Yes, you might have that freedom to be able to do so, but is that really in your best interest? Is it really in your best interest? Are you climbing that ladder and you're in a good position and just, you had a little bit of a setback? You didn't go all the way down. Like chutes and ladders. If you ever played that board game as a child, you're not going all the way down to one. You're going down a couple. And then you, you climb back up and you get a longer ladder and everything else. So you really need those three components to really decide whether to stay or to go.

But more important than that, you need somebody to talk to. Yes, talk to somebody about it. Trying to get it in here with your nasty chick voice on your shoulder. Yeah, that's not going to work. It's not going to work, nor is it going to work. Talking to your friend. Yes. Your friends love you, they adore you, they want the best for you, but they don't have the answer either.

They really don't. They're grasping at straws and whatnot. You need somebody to talk to, preferably somebody who's gone through the experience and has come out on the other side and emulates what you want. I want to find somebody that has been through this experience. It's kind of like learning to drive. You want to learn to drive that from somebody that knows how to drive. You're not going to get in a car with somebody that doesn't know how to drive. The same thing here.

You want that experience of that wisdom, and wisdom for me is knowledge from a textbook and from books and from life. But you also want the lived through experience.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, that applied knowledge.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Exactly. Exactly. For that wisdom.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. Love that. Well, when it comes to that relationship betrayal, for sure you are the right person for people to reach out to. And on the job side, I have been there and done gone through lots of that. Came out of the other side so happy to help you, which I think both of us. Absolutely. What you said, the clarity piece, you have to get very clear on what's going on, really, what and what choice you want to make. Might not be a black and white.

It's actually, I don't really know what my choices are. You know, and me on the career side, a lot of times, people like, well, I am not fulfilled in this job. I want to leave. I know I need to leave. This happened. That happened. But I don't know what I can do next. And maybe this is an opportunity to shift.

I don't know what's out there for me. And I can imagine it's the same thing. Like, I've tried to think about that, too, like, going through a partner betrayal. And especially if you have a family or you're just intertwined, right. You're living your lives together. How just even understanding. What would that even look like if I were to leave? And is that what would be better or not? So, yeah, I'm 100% with you having a neutral party, unbiased. And our friends, like you said, want the world for us, our family, of course, they've all got their biases, and.

Vanessa Cardenas:

They make it very, very challenging. You know, that's one of the reasons that we didn't share it with anybody else, because we didn't want that judgment, because we weren't in a place of knowing exactly what we wanted. We didn't have the clarity to know whether we were going to stay or to go. And if we have family members that are dead set on, you have to leave, and we didn't, then that would rupture the relationship we have with them.

Lisa Virtue:

Right.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Coming through the experience to the other side. And now, of course, they know, you know, some of them are a little hurt. Like, why didn't you tell us? Well, it's a personal thing. We're going through it ourselves. But now we don't need their judgment. They can't even give their judgment because we're still together. They might whisper it amongst themselves, but that's on them.

Lisa Virtue:

But it's not about you.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Very much so. And they get to see. They got to see the transformation. And if this is the end result, I'm okay with it. I really am. I truly, truly am.

I love who I am. I love what I can bring to other people. As you can see, my energy is contagious. And I just. I love that opportunity to be able to share, to be able to share, to be that example for others, that they're not alone. They're hurt. I know it. I know it all too well.

I know it all too well. But I also know that you can get through it. You have the resilience to get through it. And it's so beautiful on the other side. It truly, truly is. So if you're going to go through a gut wrenching experience, a gut wrenching experience that you just feel like, why continue? Why move on? How can I salvage this marriage? Or how can I salvage myself so that I'm ready for the next relationship, the next responsible relationship? Because that happens as well. I've worked with clients that have left the relationship after they get the clarity, the freedom from fear and so forth, and they've decided that they need to part ways. Well, now here they stand, ready for the next relationship.

They have to be cleared of all that baggage. They can't bring that baggage into a new relationship. That relationship's not going to survive if you've got all that baggage, but you have all that baggage because you haven't cleaned it up, you haven't let it go, you haven't moved through it.

Lisa Virtue:

Same with the workforce. My God, how many parallels? Just go to a new job. There's still going to be that baggage there. You're looking over your shoulder, all sorts of stuff.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Lisa Virtue:

So true. Well, thank you so much, Vanessa, for all your wisdom and, yes, your energy, your enthusiasm. My gosh, I love talking to you. So I really appreciate it. And if someone is going through betrayal and wants to work with someone like you, how can they get ahold of you?

Vanessa Cardenas:

My URL is understanding ear, understandingear.com. and you can find me on the socials as well, by my name. Yeah, I'm there. Reach out. Just reach out. That's half the battle is just reaching out and just saying, hi, I need help. And I remember how that felt. I remember all too well, because, again, I was a smart woman.

Well, I didn't need help. You know, I'm asking a stranger to help me, really. Oh, my God. It's liberating. It's so liberating to do it. And you will be free. You will be free. And the weight off your shoulders is.

It's priceless. It truly is. And when you delay that, you're just delaying the healing.

Lisa Virtue:

And life's too short.

Vanessa Cardenas:

It is.

Lisa Virtue:

It's too short. I have had countless women get on discovery calls with me that didn't end up working with me because they just needed that ear. Maybe even one time, right. Crying and telling me all sorts of things like, oh, I can't believe I'm telling a stranger. I'm like, well, course, it's confidential here. No judgment from me. That's, I just want success for you and, yeah, fascinating. And I've had that experience with coaches myself.

You know, as a coach, I believe in coaching. And so I've had coaches where it just took one session, I was like, oh. That released that part from me. And other times where a full engagement made sense. So I think some people get really concerned about reaching out because they're worried, oh, how much it's a yemenite going to cause. And then that's a whole nother burden they're putting on their shoulders instead of just taking that step, like you said, either it's going to just help you that day and get you through it a little bit farther, or maybe you will find a great partner and solution to help you further. So I love what you said about just do it. Just get on a calendar.

Talk to somebody.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yeah, just talk to somebody. See what it feels like. And there's lots of different people. That's the beauty of it as well. You know, you. You might not connect with me because you don't like the pink in my hair or you don't like, you feel that my energy is too much for you. That's fine. There's others.

You will absolutely find someone. My word of caution, if I could be so bold, please make sure they have some sort of credentials.

Lisa Virtue:

Yes. Thank you.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Please don't just accept it as fact. Do a little bit of research, because this is a very delicate topic. Betrayal is. And you want to work with somebody that you feel comfortable with. And let me tell it this way. You are in charge. You are in charge. Whoever you decide to engage with, you're in charge of it.

Not them. They're not in charge of it. Not at all. You're in charge of it. And if it feels great, run with it. Run. Run with it. And if it doesn't feel right, move on to the next.

Move on to the next because you will find I spent tens of thousands of dollars picking and choosing what I liked from each individual because there's not a one size fits all. There isn't. There truly isn't. And you just want to grab. You want to grab and hold on to certain things that you like and other things you just flick away.

Lisa Virtue:

Absolutely. Oh, love it. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your love and your energy and anyone out there going through betrayal. We feel you. We are here. Even if it's just through this podcast.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Yes.

Lisa Virtue:

Sending you those warm vibes because it can be really rough.

Vanessa Cardenas:

Thank you so much. Thank you.