Lisa Virtue:

Hi, Kayla. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad you're here today.

Kayla Quijas:

Hi, Lisa. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, me too. Because I keep having so many people wanting to enter the project management world. So many of them have been doing projects kind of, or they think they've done them in the way a project manager is looked to, to do them. But there's a big learning curve out there. Right. And so it's exciting to talk to you about, what does that look like, to get into a world like that and to make a big transition in your career. And I know you've had a lot of stories about your own transition, so let's start with that. Let's talk about your career journey up to this point and what led you to where you are today.

Kayla Quijas:

Yes. So I'm going to try to keep this as brief as possible because it has been very non linear. I actually started my professional career as a cake decorator. I wanted to be the next buddy Velastro, you know, cake boss.

Lisa Virtue:

Yes.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah, I wanted to be that. And I thought I was going to have my own TLC show with all the drama, and it was going to be great. That is not real life. And I realized that the hard way. I did this for about five years before I realized there was no career progression. I was just kind of, I was out of alignment. I was really passionate about what I was doing. But to be very honest, there wasn't a lot of money in it.

And I was just getting to a point in my life where I needed to reassess what my priorities were. And I think maybe I felt like some of what some of your clients feel like, which is, what skills do I have to offer? And I think because of that, because I was a little self conscious and didn't really believe in myself at that point. I was just like, give me whatever you can give me that's in an office, you know, whatever comes my way. And the first thing that came my way was a receptionist position at a law firm. So I accepted it. And that's where I really, that's how I broke into the professional sphere. And I stayed there for four and a half years before I realized again I was kind of at a dead end, and I wanted to do something about it. So I landed on project management.

And it was not an easy decision. It was not a linear decision, but it did make sense. And it took me some time to also realize that not only did I have project management experience in an office, but I could also use some of my cake decorating, like non office experience as well. So I'm here today. I've been a project manager, officially by title, for about three and a half years, and I just got promoted to senior last November. So exciting.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, congrats on that. That's great.

Kayla Quijas:

Thank you.

Lisa Virtue:

Okay. I love it because as you were talking about cake decorating too, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's so much project management in that, the transferable skills. But when you think linear, people aren't going to associate that necessarily until you explain to them. Right, but I'm imagining everything. And thank you, TLC, for exposing us to that world. They make it look so easy. But holy cow, I know it, right? The measurements and the science behind it and being able to line it up in your time management skills. Wow.

Kayla Quijas:

Totally.

Lisa Virtue:

Okay, so let's get into for the listeners, those people that are interested in like, okay, maybe project management is for me. What are some of the things that they should be considering? And maybe what did you consider as far as what kind of transferable skills are required? What kind of personality does it take? And most those are women. I tend to see a lot of women gravitate towards this profession. I have my own assumptions about that. But I'd love to hear your thoughts too, on maybe where it can be a good match for feminine energy. Whatever you want to share with that, I'd love to hear.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah, I never really thought about that, but I would love to speak about that. I think to answer your first point, it was actually, it was a little reversed for me. It wasn't that I thought, oh, project management, and then like, backed into it. I tried on a couple other things. First, I felt when I decided I needed a change in my career, I felt very lost. I felt very lost and I felt very backed into a corner because I had a degree in history and then I had been a cake decorator. And then just random, whatever got thrown my way after that. You know, I stayed at the same place for four and a half years, made my way up the ranks.

But it was never because it's what I decided. It was always what was given to me and I, I had to pay the bills and be an adult, so I would just take it without a lot of thought behind it. So when I got to a point where I wanted to put thought behind it, it really started with me thinking, what do I enjoy and what am I good at? Which isn't always the same and it doesn't always overlap for everybody, right? But I knew I love data analysis. I don't know why. I love charts and graphs and, like, making sense out of chaos. I hear that a lot from people who like project management. Not necessarily charts and graphs, but making sense out of chaos. I loved working with people, and I love leading teams, and I loved seeing the results for those team members or for the organization.

It just was really fulfilling for me. And I landed on a few things because of that. I thought, okay, maybe I'll be a data scientist. Kind of made sense. And then I realized that I would probably need to take a very expensive boot camp, and it just wasn't feasible. It was like $10,000 or something like that, and just not what I was willing to invest.

Lisa Virtue:

Serious tech skills involved, for sure.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I didn't feel like I had that where I was. I had actually gotten a good deal of accounting skills, so I thought, maybe I'll keep going with that. Let's see, how much career progression can I get with that, right? Started looking at CPA because I thought, I'm really good at studying. I can just study, take this test, you know? And I realized that is not true. I was going to have to go back to college to get more math because I was a history major. And again, it was just, I was like, no, I'm not.

I'm not going to go back to college. So I started to feel very. I was very upset with myself. I was very upset with my decisions in life, and I just didn't know where to go. But I had actually had a mentor. She was a manager. She was one of my managers at the time. And she said, hey, you know, you'd make a great project manager.

And that's when the lights went on for me, because I didn't even know. I was like, what's a project manager?

Lisa Virtue:

Right?

Kayla Quijas:

This is a profession. What do these people do?

Lisa Virtue:

Think most people don't know, by the way. Like, college does not teach us any of the actual roles that are out there.

Kayla Quijas:

I mean, when you're doing those assessments in high school, I don't think I've ever seen one that's like project manager. No, yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

I mean, it's kind of a newer concept, too, if we really think about it. Like, technically, like, in the tech world is really where it started to become a track. Right? So, yeah, true.

Kayla Quijas:

Very true. Yeah. So when she said that to me, I was like, oh, okay, let me check this out. And then that's when I started to realize, okay, I love processes. I love order. I love leading teams. I'm very good at communication. I work well with people, very personable, that sort of stuff.

And then when I started to think of the feasibility, then it started to make even more sense because I decided to get my project management professional certification. And that one, as long as you can prove three years of project management or project management adjacent information or experience, and you take the test, you can do it. And then there's progression. I'm already at a senior level. There is career progression. When I looked at all of those things, it just, it's what lined up for me.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, I love it. So there's a few. I'm curious about this, too. There's a few different roles that are similar to each other but have different titles and a little bit different structure. So could you explain the difference between product manager, project manager, and then anything else that you see that is very similar in nature and people are trying to decide between them?

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah, I think that's a really good question, Lisa, because sometimes people come to me as well and they're like, wait, product or project? I'm not really sure. And then there's this added confusion of program management.

Lisa Virtue:

The third p. Yeah, yeah.

Kayla Quijas:

So when I was thinking about this, there's ways to explain it that aren't very fun. And I think what I've come up with is, so the product manager, they are responsible for the entire vision of a product. Okay, front to end. And then even once the product is done, they are still responsible for enhancements. But that's boring. That's a boring way to think of it. Right. So let's think of it in terms of someone wants to build a castle.

The product manager will define what the castle needs. They'll speak to the people, they'll speak to the king, they'll speak to the army, and they'll figure out, all right, you need four spires and, okay, you need a moat and we need a drawbridge and all of those things. So that's what the product manager does. And then they sort of prioritize. What's the most important thing? What do we need to make sure we get done? And then even over time, let's say, you know, there's a battle and the castle gets damaged, then they're the ones that are responsible for identifying that damage and then making sure that it is fixed. So that's product management beginning to end. They have the vision. They hold the vision.

A project manager will be put in charge of one project within that. So let's say the moat is a project, and the drawbridge is a project and one of the spires is a project. So someone will be put. Now we have three project managers. They're all in charge of these little projects, making sure they get done beginning to end, that tasks are done, they're done on time, that we're not using too much gold, all of that stuff, because we're going to really carry on with the metaphor here. So that's what a project manager does. Get this thing done, make sure the tasks are done. I think where the confusion about the program manager comes in, it's like, okay, where do they fit in this? So the program manager is going to look at these three projects, the moat, the drawbridge, the spire, and they're going to make sure that they all come together in a way that makes sense.

So, for example, they might need to say the drawbridge needs to be 200ft long because the moat is 150ft wide. That's what they're in charge of, making sure that strategically, everything fits together and happens at the right time.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, that's a great explanation. By the way, I love your metaphor. Thank you.

Kayla Quijas:

I know a lot of people explain.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, well, back to where titles kind of came from, really. In construction, there's always been project managers and product, I think they call them different titles, really, when it comes to more that blue collar. So it's interesting because now we've taken a lot of, what, even back to medieval times, I'm sure those types of roles and have now applied them to more of a virtual world. And even different industries are picking up on like, oh, we need that kind of a title. Right. So this is something that I've seen grow just exponentially in the last few years. Have you seen that as well?

Kayla Quijas:

I have, yeah. I just saw something the other day that said, I think we need 25,000 more project managers in the next five or six years. It's a lot.

Lisa Virtue:

That is a lot.

Kayla Quijas:

It's a growing industry.

Lisa Virtue:

It makes sense because it used to be, and I have a history of this too, like in the fitness and wellness space, we never had project managers, unless it was for construction of a facility space. Then it was someone on the construction team. And usually that was more like, this is the lead, or we didn't really call them. It's so interesting. There's more that people do call project managers now. So it was always very physical. But then as business operations personnel, we were told we needed to run all these things and stay within scope, schedule, budget and like, you know, we had the concepts, but I think this is why it's so fascinating. A lot of people are looking to this type of a profession because we're like, wait, I've been doing that.

I've been doing that.

Kayla Quijas:

Exactly.

Lisa Virtue:

And just like you were saying, even with cake decorating, like, oh, my gosh, I was doing that every day. I had project, like, many projects.

Kayla Quijas:

Right.

Lisa Virtue:

And so now we're just defining it in a way that we can have certain personalities and people that want to sit in that space and they like to be there and they don't have to be. So spread out where they're, like, doing customer service and product management and project management and doing all the things.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. It's more specialization. And let's say, you know, when I was a cake decorator, yes, I was doing project management, but if I had had a project manager, they would have been saying, okay, Kayla, now you're going to work on this part of this cake. You're gonna do that right now, and that's gonna take you probably a couple hours. Are you done with that? Great. Okay, now let's move on to the next thing. Whereas with when I was just myself, I had to make those decisions on my own and make sure I managed my own schedule, my own time, and the budget for all of these as well.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. Now leaders and stakeholders and shareholders can look and say, okay, where's the bottleneck? Where are we stuck? Why aren't we progressing in this thing? Cause you have someone actually reporting out on that, too. Right. They're like, well, this is where we're blocked, or this is where that person is blocked, and it just becomes those facts instead of blame game that happens in so many organizations. I know good project managers just keep track and are very diplomatic with how they communicate to people that are blocking something. And they, at the beginning of the project, really outline. Here's how we're going to communicate. Here's how we're going to track.

So if someone is flagged like you're blocking someone else, it's not personal, it's just facts.

Kayla Quijas:

Right, exactly. Yeah, totally. And that's, you know, that's a very, to bring back your point, I think that a lot of women, women end up in project management because of, I think they have this very, like, caring, nurturing way about them. Of course, not to say that men can't, because they totally can. I just think that it does end up being more in that feminine energy realm. Right. And then it takes so much of this, you know, I don't want to hurt your feelings. I want to make sure this just, you know, this isn't personal.

We're just, you know, we're all trying to get the same thing done. This is what's happening. Let me explain it to you or to us. Talk about it in an empathetic way, like what's going on here. I notice this hasn't happened yet. Are you doing okay? You have too much work. What's going on for you? And I think for that reason, it tends to draw a lot more women and be a very good fit for that feminine energy.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, I agree with you, especially because, well, heres something that can be hard for people too, which id love to hear your thoughts on. This is when youre a project manager, you dont have pretty much none of the people that youre tracking their progress report to you. Right. So youre that neutral party a lot of times separate completely from the team. You're helping and you're supporting. And I know that people that have more of a controlling personality have a really hard time with that because they're like, I want to hold that person accountable, but I can't.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

And so curious what your thoughts are like back to what makes a good fit. And if someone's evaluating this, like characteristics and personality types, what do you see good fits, what do you see can be challenging. What are your thoughts on that?

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. And I think that to your point about you don't actually control any of this, these people don't report to you. That is a consistent, I'm going to say, problem or pain point within project management. I always recommend the book leading without authority by Keith Farazzi. I think I've read it two or three times at this point. And it just, the more I read it, the more it hits home and it's more about creating genuine working relationships with people, which can be very hard. When you're under a lot of pressure and you have to get things done very quickly, that can be hard. It is, from my perspective, easier to do when you enter a new organization, you can be a little more proactive about that.

You can always turn it around at your current job. But I think that gets a little harder because you're already in the trenches, right. You're already full of doing all of your tasks and probably getting hit from all sides. So carving out that time to work on relationships is very hard. And I think you had a second question about that.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah. So what characteristics or personality types have you seen or tend to make a really good fit or might have more challenging things pop up in this type of work.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. So for project management, I think being a self starter is very important. I also think that liking leading teams and working with people is very, very important. I am not going to say that you have to be an extrovert to be a project manager. I do not think that's true. I think some people think that, but, you know, you need to at least enjoy part of it. And then if you're an introvert, make sure you go charge your batteries. Have your alone time for a little bit.

So for anybody out there listening who is an introvert, you can still be a project manager. It's okay. Just be aware of how you charge your batteries. Someone who loves planning and is very structured. So, story time. Um, I used to always be that person for my very large group of friends who would plan all of the outings, like float trips and trips to the pumpkin patch and, you know, Cinco de Mayo and all of those things. I would plan everything and tell everybody, all right, you need to bring this and you need to do this, and here's the time. And that was just my personality.

Very organized. I love planning. I love bringing people together. I loved working towards that. Cause that was going to bring joy to people and that type of personality. If you're someone who enjoys doing those type of things, I think you're really going to thrive in project management. Additionally, I have another story. There's also this process improvement portion of project management where you take something that's broken and streamline it and fix it.

I remember I was skiing once with my, my family. I don't ski a lot, by the way. This is like one of the three times in my life that I've skied. Yeah, exactly. But I was getting very frustrated because I was going down, like, the medium hill, and then I'd have to, like, I don't know if you've ever walked in skis.

Lisa Virtue:

Oh, yeah.

Kayla Quijas:

But it's really hard. Yeah, so hard. So I was, like, trying to do my weird, like, scooting, hopping, walking over to back to the line to get on the lift, and I was just so frustrated. And then I looked and I noticed that when you got off the medium hill, you could actually slide right into the line for the bunny hill.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah.

Kayla Quijas:

So then I just got into the line for the bunny hill. Did the bunny hill, and then when you get down the bunny hill, you can slide right into the line for the medium hill. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Process improved.

Lisa Virtue:

Right now.

Kayla Quijas:

Now I don't have to just, like, do this weird scooting. And I just, that is my personality, you know?

Lisa Virtue:

So someone who thinks like that and efficiency, right. Check who's more efficient.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. Yeah. I just, I can't help it. That's just how my brain is. Someone who's a good communicator, someone who has good follow through. If you open your kitchen cabinet and it looks like a Pinterest cabinethe you'd probably be a good project.

Lisa Virtue:

Oh, and can you come to my house, please? I could use your help. I love it. That's beautiful. So, starting. How do, how does one get started? First of all, people always ask, do I have to have a certification? And, you know, you mentioned it earlier, but most reputable certifications, you actually have to have experience before you can get that certification. So people get a little frustrated, like, how do, how do I get started? What's my best first step to get into this world? What would your recommendation be there?

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. So I do think it is a good idea to get some sort of certification. And there are two certifications that you can really go for. There's the CAPM. They're both through the project management institute. So CAPM, certified associate project manager, you do not need experience for that. You just need to study and take the test. And that shows initiative, and it shows that you understand the basics.

So very little barrier to entry there for some people. I recognize that time is a challenge for a lot of people, or some people don't test well, and I totally get that. And there are ways, you know, there are ways to kind of work around those things. But there's the CAPM and then the PMP, which does require some experience. But in my experience, there's a lot from your past that you can restructure as project management experience. So I really do recommend doing one of the certifications, because companies don't understand. They don't understand the certifications. They just think, oh, they have it.

They must know what they're doing. Which is probably true, but structured textbook project management is nothing like real life. And I think that is what is unfortunate about the certification situation, is that companies sort of require it, but it, it doesn't help you as much as you might think.

Lisa Virtue:

Mm hmm. Sounds like it's more because anytime we transition in a career. Right. It's more about, like, learning the language, knowing how to speak to it, understanding quick acronyms, even, that people might be using. Right. So do the, like that seed ca, what did certified associate CAPM is that one. I'm not as familiar with that as PMP does. That one help with that? It helps with you learning the language.

And you now understand, really, what your role entails. Things like that. Right. More theoretical.

Kayla Quijas:

Exactly. It does. I think the CAPM is, it covers all the same things as the PMP, but the PMP, from my experience, will ask you more. What would you do in this situation? It's sort of testing your ethics and your thought process as a project manager as opposed to what is a Moscow analysis that might be more covered on the CAPM. So there's that aspect. And then when I did it, and I would recommend this for any career transitioner, really. I got a resume writer, I think. My goodness, in 2020, I think I spent $1,200 on a resume writer, and it was worth every single penny.

Like, totally worth it. She just articulated my background and my experience in a way at the time that I couldn't. I didn't have the language. I really didn't know how to talk about what I was doing in project management terms. And she did. And that was huge. That was huge for me.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, I see that all the time with my clients, too. It's like, oh, that was a project, or, I do know what I'm talking about.

Kayla Quijas:

Exactly. Yeah. I think what's great for me with career coaching for this is over time, people do start to realize, like, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, you're right. I do know what I'm doing. And they get this confidence and.

Lisa Virtue:

Exactly.

Kayla Quijas:

I love that.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, me too. And we've. So we have very similar backgrounds in our training on the career coaching side and helping career transitioners. So what brought you to be doing that as well as your project management role? Kayla, why? Why coaching others in this space? Why are you doing it?

Kayla Quijas:

Yes. I have so much love and appreciation for the woman who did my resume. So there is that. And on top of it, after my first project management job, I really struggled. Lisa? I did for about a year because I had never officially done it. And there were some environmental factors that were kind of playing into. It just wasn't overall the best situation. But my confidence took a really big hit after that.

And when I decided to get out of that situation and move to a different one, I hired a career coach. And this person also, he just made such a world of difference for me. He held my hand through the transition. He was a sounding board for me. He gave me advice. He just was just really changed my life. And in retrospect, when I look at my career progression and my career transition and the fact that I've tripled, if not maybe even quadrupled my salary. These two people, they were just huge for me.

And I think I, I got to this point where I thought, my goodness, if I could have just a smidgen of the impact that these people have on me, wouldn't that be so great? Like, I would just love to be able to help people in the way that I was helped and I can use, you know, I have my own various flavors that I added to things that helped me be successful in getting jobs and later being successful in, you know, my progression as a project manager. So it was really, you know, those two people and then my own, my own success that I was like, oh my gosh, I love to teach people how to do this. So, yeah, I got certified and now I do get to help people do it and I love it.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, it's so fulfilling. I'm right there with you. And I think it's funny because it perpetuates, like, if you've been affected by a good coach and you have that personality of wanting to be with people and help people, then it's definitely, I see a lot of us go, I can do that too. That sounds great. Kind of pain it forward. Right. Breeding a whole new crop of all of us.

Kayla Quijas:

Exactly. Yeah. And I am a full time project manager, so I do really love this because it is literally my side, like my passion project, what I do in my free time. So I love it.

Lisa Virtue:

Fabulous. Well, we had one question that we didn't answer earlier, which is, what is program management? Do you want to quickly explain that?

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. So in the, in the castle scenario, a program manager will. A program manager makes sure that all the projects work together towards some sort of goal. So going back to the castle thing, if a project is a spire and a project is the moat and a project is the drawbridge, they're going to make sure that those things happen in an order and in a way that makes sense so that we can build the castle. So, you know, if we know the moat is 150ft wide, they're going to be the ones that says, listen, we need to make sure the drawbridge spans the entire moat strategically. Like, it makes no sense to make a 50 foot drawbridge, it needs to be 200ft. This is a strategic, we're thinking strategically about the way all of the pieces, all of the projects fit together so that it can in the end, provide value.

Lisa Virtue:

And how's that different than the product manager?

Kayla Quijas:

So the product manager is going to define like we need a moat, we need a bridge, we need these spires, they draw, they design the vision for what's happening.

Lisa Virtue:

Gotcha. Does it make sense for people? So back to your point about career progression. Let's take a second just to explore that. So starting out like maybe you are an associate, maybe you're in a coordinator, right, within a PMO or something like that. And that's project management office. And then you become a project manager. Now senior project manager. What other is it you go into product or program? Is that something that people can aspire to? Is it very different? How does that all look?

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. So in the natural, the natural progression of things. So a program is made up of several projects. So naturally when you get a lot of experience or some experience as a project manager, the next sort of step in your career does tend to be program management because now you understand what the project managers under you are doing, you know how to mentor them and make sure that they have the support that they need. And you start thinking much more strategically about, you know, how do we make all these things work together? Using your experience with project manager as project manager, how do we make them all work together? And so normally the next progression from project manager is to program manager. There's something even higher than that called a portfolio manager. And we don't have to get into it too much, but they generally manage multiple programs and you know, that's, that's the third sort of level that you'll generally get into. I don't see a lot of those, to be quite honest, outside of like the finance world.

But that's not the same thing.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, yeah. And like big organizations, right. It can be a pretty expensive role to even be able to afford as a company. I know. To, to have somebody do all that.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah, yeah. At that point you're almost getting to like the director level anyway. So they might take you to the director level. Yeah, I think with product management I don't think there's a progression as far as you know, it's up or down. I think there is a lateral movement that can be made from product to project and vice versa. There is some overlap. It's not 100% the same job, obviously, or they'd have the same title. But I.

Some of the concepts are there and you can definitely rework your background in either of those to transfer over to the other one. And I see, I see this trend of product management being wrapped into project management.

Lisa Virtue:

I was going to say a lot of times, especially smaller companies, it's like you're doing all of that.

Kayla Quijas:

Exactly.

Lisa Virtue:

Yeah, exactly. I see that too. A lot. Which can be a good way to really get your foot in the door also. Right. With a smaller organization and then whichever title you want to maybe focus on or get promoted outside that organization, now you've got those transferable skills in both areas you can kind of focus down and hone in on. Which title do you want to illustrate when you go out to market?

Kayla Quijas:

I completely agree with you. I think in small organizations you will likely make less money, but youre a probably going to get a lot of different experience. I mean, my goodness, I got some accounting experience, some HR experience, some project management experience, just a lot of different things. So then, yes, you can kind of look at. All right. What within that did I enjoy? I hated managing benefits, Lisa. I hate it. Yep, some people like that.

But, yeah, then you can take what you like and hopefully take that experience to a larger organization where then you might, you know, have more career progression or the ability to earn a higher salary.

Lisa Virtue:

Yep. I'm a huge proponent of, especially in a transition to get noticed, smaller organizations, you can really get your foot in the door a lot of times. Yeah.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah.

Lisa Virtue:

Awesome. Okay, Kayla. So if people are now thinking, like, I feel like project management is for me, or I'm this close to thinking it's for me, but I want a little more clarity and more conversation about my unique skill set and experience, and they want to reach out to you. How can they get a hold of you?

Kayla Quijas:

I think the best way is through my LinkedIn page. So just look for me and Lisa, if you.

Lisa Virtue:

I'll put the link for sure. Yeah.

Kayla Quijas:

Thank you. Kayla. Kayla. And my last name is a doozy. It's q u I j a s, so.

Lisa Virtue:

And pronounce it for everybody.

Kayla Quijas:

Yes. Keyhouse.

Lisa Virtue:

Love it.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. Thank you. It is a hard one. And if anybody is interested, I am doing a free LinkedIn live this coming Thursday. You're going to have to cut this out, Lisa. I apologize.

Lisa Virtue:

It's okay. I know we won't go live this week.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah, we're not going live.

Lisa Virtue:

You could, if you want to mention, keep your eye out for when I do LinkedIn lives. Feel free to say that.

Kayla Quijas:

Oh, yeah. Yeah. If I. I often do LinkedIn lives on my page, so definitely follow me. Take advantage of all the free stuff that I do.

Lisa Virtue:

Awesome. Yeah. We'll definitely have your link in the show notes and people I'm sure can just reach out and ask a quick question, too, to have you unblock them and then go from there.

Kayla Quijas:

Yeah. Happy to do it.

Lisa Virtue:

Thank you so much. This was a really great conversation to just get to the root of what a lot of noise is out there about this. I know there's some people that just push, like, look into project management, and then they go on and on. It's like, well, but is it for everyone? No, not necessarily. So thank you for sharing your wisdom, your knowledge, and your experience with everyone, and keep doing what you're doing.

Kayla Quijas:

Thank you, Lisa. I had a great time. Thank you so much for having me on.

Lisa Virtue:

Thanks for coming.