Lisa:

Hi, Laura. Thank you so much for taking the time to come and talk about money, money, money.

Laura:

I'm so excited to be here.

Lisa:

Such an important topic because we're talking about careers and that's our jobs. Give us the resources to thrive in life. Right? So we're talking about how do you thrive at work in order to thrive in life? Because for me, it's not even a balance. It's like a harmony, right? We spend so much time at work, and so those resources, when we get them, what should we be prioritizing? What should we do with them? And, you know, all those things, it's what we're going to talk about today. We'll dig in a little bit and have a limited amount of time, but I just really appreciate you coming to tell this story and giving some tips for the audience. So thank you.

Laura:

Thank you, force. And like you said, it's very important.

Lisa:

Absolutely.

Laura:

Move forward in life.

Lisa:

Right? So, Laura, I would love for everyone to hear your story and background. So could you tell us a little bit about your career journey? Because we're also asking our guests to be mentors. Right. To the women that are listening a little bit about your career journey and then how you ended up doing this work that you do now.

Laura:

Great question. So I had a 30 year career as an institutional investor on Wall Street. I always like to say that I started when I was twelve, but be that as it may, I had a long career on Wall street, and I often divide it into thirds. So the first ten years, some of you may be starting out in your career. I hope you have the experience I had, which is, it was fascinating work and it paid well. I loved what I did, never focused on a particular industry. I was always researching new industries. I had a specialty in industries that were in some distress.

So they were maybe a pay phone industry, media industries that were going out of business. And I tried to understand how they could improve their situation and what I thought the business itself was worth. First ten years, amazing. Second ten years, I have a completely different story of having three kids with two year age difference between the oldest and the youngest. And so I was far and away the primary breadwinner of the family. My husband was both characterologically and financially the one to be home most of the time. And so I was busy. I wasn't really paying attention to whether or not I enjoyed what I was doing.

I just took it for granted. The last ten years, Lisa, I was really unhappy, and yet I was trapped by my things. By that time, I had three kids going to camp, going to private school, saving towards college at a large house. I had a vacation home. I rewarded myself with fancy vacations and clothes. And though I was unhappy, I really felt like I couldn't walk away until I found mindfulness practices. I found yoga. I did a meditation teacher training.

And I realized what sounds sort of simple to say, but that I was choosing to be a victim of my life and that if I was wearing a tight pair of shoes, I could take them off. And through that, it's still. I don't want to make it sound like it was easy to walk away. It took me a number of years to get the balls, if you will, to walk away. But I finally, unbelievably, it was November 2013 that I left the institutional side of Wall street, and I thought of being a yoga teacher. I decided that my hamstrings were tight and that wasn't my path. And so, in a way, I decided I wanted to be a yoga teacher for money. I had the familiarity with financial markets, the comfort level with numbers, and I had done my own work, which is like, oh, what does my expense structure need to be to walk away? So we sold our big house, and I'm in a smaller house now, and we sold our vacation home, and my kids were off the payroll and doing that own work.

I felt that work for myself. I felt like, Lisa, I wanna help other people do that work with understanding their expenses and how they can put in place a structure where they can be excited about going to work every day and living their purpose.

Lisa:

So fascinating, the fact that you were a woman on wall street, just right there, it's like, oh, we could talk all day about that.

Laura:

I mean, there are a lot more women on Wall street than when I started in the eighties. And it was, you know, it was an interesting place to be and remains an interesting place to be. And also, I guess, what I've come to realize, and I want to share, share this with your listeners, which is I would sometimes get down on myself recently, like, why did I do a career for so long that perhaps wasn't really what I was meant to do? And somebody pointed out to me, again, something very simple, Laura, the fact that you have choices now is because of those years, and that what you choose to do when you're younger, when you're building your financial base, when you're building your career, that hours you choose to work, the people you choose to be working with, is very different than when you get older. And if you make a point of working hard and putting a good financial basis in place, you will have more choices at a time where you might not have the same kind of energy you had when you were younger.

Lisa:

Yeah. Let's start digging into these choices, especially women that are kind of earlier to mid career. So they're not quite ready to retire, but they're hopefully thinking about it. I think about it all the time and thinking about what kind of lifestyle do I want now and what kind of lifestyle am I going to want then? And so preparing for the future, but also, like you were saying, getting bogged down in the things, material things, the kids lifestyle, that's very expensive, as we know, in this country in particular, even just, you know, preschool. So for women to be able to work and have care for their children, most of us have to have a two household income. Sometimes a woman can work and have their husband stay home like you had sometimes in your past. But it's very rare, right? It's very rare. And then the.

But at the same time, the cost of childcare is so expensive. But you get to that point of if you're in a career path and you're a professional woman, the cost outweighs the benefit. Outweighs the cost is what I'm trying to say. So we put our children in childcare. We keep moving our careers forward. We have a certain lifestyle. And then I see, I hear this all the time. It's the spend, spend, spend, even mindlessly sometimes that ends up years later, like, I made x amount.

Why do I have no money? Or why does my retirement look so bleak? Right. So let's dig into that. And what you see when it comes to women mindset, when they're in that busyness, what are you seeing are some of the challenges that we have in our society, and what are you noticing?

Laura:

Well, a couple of things come up when you ask that question. First of all, if you're working in a job that you're not happy about, I'm speaking for myself, though I know it's true for others. I always felt the need to reward myself. Like, I am working my ass off. I don't love the people I'm working with. I'm going to go buy myself a new pair of shoes, or I'm going to go get that neck that I keep passing. And so noticing that. And my second, more important message, I guess, is really bringing mindfulness to spending.

When I first left Wall street and I had never thought about how much I spent. I didn't need to. I was making a really nice amount of money and so I put in place a structure where I first was very clear of all my have tos. I always say to my clients now, like, you're going to lie in bed all month and not do anything. What are you still paying for your mortgage, your rent, your electricity, your netflix, your gym membership, whatever it is that you have committed to, whether or not you use it. And ideally, that's 50% at most of your take home pay, not your pay without taxes coming out without 401k contributions. So know what that number is, and then work backwards so that you have room for fun and room for saving, in addition for Christmas gifts or vacations that you're putting away a little bit each month towards those bigger expenses. And so I put a system in place where I sort of understood.

Okay, so this is how much room I have each month for fun. Let's say 30% of your take home pay, ideally, and I divided that by four, and I would either only spend a debit card or only spend cash so that I didn't have to say, I'm going to try and find a Sunday every once in a while and go through my credit card bills and understand what I'm spending, but that it was more real time if I said, I'm going to just pick a number out of a hat, let's say I want to spend $1,000 in a week, or that, okay, if it was Wednesday and I already bought, like, concert tickets in a parachute, you know, and it's all gone, that you have to start at least with the mindfulness. Like, you can't get down on yourself, but you just have to know, because most of us put everything on credit cards and we have no idea what we're spending.

Lisa:

Yeah.

Laura:

So I always say the first start is not getting down on yourself, not judging yourself, but just knowing, having the information. And then when you have the information, like I say to clients who are needing to do that. So you've spent it all by Wednesday, okay. Transfer more money into the account, take more money out in cash. But now, you know.

Lisa:

Yeah. And the physical act of having to transfer that money, you know, that's. That mindfulness part, too, where you go, oh.

Laura:

And you're feeling it, and, you know, there's a balance. You don't want to deny yourself things that make you happy. Most of us, over time, will find that actually it's not things that make us happy.

Lisa:

Right.

Laura:

It's experiences. And those do cost money. Taking a vacation with friends, going out to dinner, but recognizing that those kind of things and memories you create last, whereas buying, you know, another, I cannot tell you how many pairs of earrings and costumes, jewelry, necklaces I have. And every time I just went away for vacation, a wonderful experience, and I'm like, I've got to buy something, and I end up buying anything. I have the memories. I know if I bought a t shirt or I bought a scarf or I bring it home, and who knows if I'd even wear it. And so I'm more aware of that. There's nothing wrong had I decided to buy something.

But I'm also aware that buying a things, it's exciting when you do it, and then it just loses the excitement.

Lisa:

I just saw a campaign on kind of mindfulness around this with regards to clothing and fashion. And instead of always buying new, I think their push was to buy used. Right. And so they showed people the quick reel. I can't remember where, maybe Instagram or something. The quick reel that it was showing was, what if we visually wore everything that we had an indulgence in? And so it had people with, like, 20 hats walking down the street and had someone with a trail of shoes behind them. Right. And it just looks ridiculous.

So it's. It's like that, too, when you go to do a spring cleanup or something in your closet, and you're like, oh, why did I buy all of this?

Laura:

And I haven't worn it in years. I will say that two brands that I've always liked, one, Eileen Fisher, they now have their own, like, you can buy through their websites, reuse clothing. And I was a whole bunch of reused clothes from Eileen Fisher. And another thing about saving for retirement, and I love that employers are now doing this. They were not doing this when I was working. But the default for 401K, for retirement contributions used to be zero. Like, if you didn't opt in, you aren't putting money in. And now the default is some percentage, which I think is phenomenal, because otherwise, so many people don't even put in enough to get the company match.

Lisa:

Oh, my gosh. Let's talk about that. That's just like free money. You're not.

Laura:

Yeah.

Lisa:

Taking advantage of people.

Laura:

Don't think about it. It's like, oh, I'm onboarding. I'm choosing my healthcare. I mean, oh, someday I'll think about the. Even when I met my husband, he was putting it in a money market account. I'm like, this is your retirement money. You're not touching this. For years.

You have to put it in the stock market. But nobody had ever told him and he didn't even know what a money market fund was, just doing what he thought was right.

Lisa:

Or somebody whispered another thing that employers sometimes offer that I see a lot of people not take advantage of, and I did take advantage of it in my early thirties, was a financial advisor, or maybe you have, like, an employee resource, reach out a phone number that you can reach out to our website where you can meet with a financial advisor. So I don't know if you're seeing that a lot too, but that was the game changer for my family in that awareness piece, because you're forced to do the budgeting, you're forced to look at. It was, like, in your face, right? And then financial advisor could tell you, okay, what are your big goals, and what does that look like compared to these other goals you have, and where should you prioritize? And so it was more of just a practice of, first of all, my husband and I did it together. That was really powerful, right? Having those conversations, making us look at it together. We have very different approaches to saving. So having that conversation, understanding each other, was so important. And the one, the biggest takeaway besides it being just in our face and seeing it, because I will tell you, there are lifestyle. Some things changed career wise, where we ended up doing the three goals that our financial advisors said, don't do those yet.

We ended up doing them, and it was great, but that was, you know, because how things played out. So you don't, you know, you still have to make your own choices with how you're going to move forward. But the best advice that advisor gave us, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, was the spending money part. It doesn't have to be a lot. It even can be $5 that each of you get each week or something. But it was to have your. When you're in a partnership and you don't separate your finances, because we were a blended family with our finances, it was give, then it's cash, right? Like, give them the cash or open a new account, but you each get money out of that account before you do anything else with it, and you get to spend it however you want, and the other person can't say a word about it. And just that freedom.

It was mostly for my husband, quite frankly, because I was a breadwinner at that time. Um, it was that freedom of, like, this is my money, huh? I can do whatever I want with it. And that's when I learned he's a saver. Because months later, he'd be like, I have hundreds of dollars, and. Well, how do you have money? Mia was spending it on, like, entertainment or going out with friends. Right. He had all this money hoarded up, and he just loved. Now then he was able to invest in crypto and, like, experiment with his money.

Didn't feel bad because it wasn't coming out of our bills. You know, I'm curious what your thoughts are on all the things I just said.

Laura:

I love it. One thing I've learned from working with individuals is that you can't take anything for granted in terms of how couples work together. I married relatively young. I was 26 years old when I got married. My husband and I were earning nothing. And I guess I'm coming to also realize that it's just our personality. So we immediately blended our bank accounts. Though he always feels the need to deny himself, and I always feel the need to treat myself somehow.

We've worked out together how to spend. Interestingly, I often use this couple as an example. I've been working with a couple for a number of years. They're relatively older. They have three grandchildren. They have completely separate finances. Lisa, because exactly what you described. Like, she grew up poor, and she feels very anxious about money, though she's calmed down over time.

And her husband said, I want to be able, you know, I want to buy a flat screen tv without her freaking out about it. And so they've been married 35 plus years. They do not share any of their finances because they have such a different attitude towards spending that, you know, I guess another option would have been, you know, what you just told me about, but recognizing that they each will make different spending decisions, so why burden the other?

Lisa:

Yeah.

Laura:

Worry about the judgment.

Lisa:

Right? For sure. And it's so fascinating because this is a new problem in our culture. Women couldn't even have accounts not very long ago.

Laura:

Credit cards till the seventies. Crazy.

Lisa:

I know, it's so wild. And some of the listeners were born in the seventies. Like, it's just your mom had you as a baby, couldn't even get a credit card to pay for formula or diapers, you know, whatever she needed. Yeah, it's insane. So I think navigating that, like, to your point, everyone's going to be different. Your partnerships are going to be different the way you navigate it. But that communication. Right.

It's so important to talk to and.

Laura:

So hard because we come with our own money stories of, you know, and we're going to bring to the conversation this concept. Like, he's going to judge me. He's going to get angry. I mean, I'm working with a couple that the wife, I mean, luckily, it wasn't a lot of money, but she called me separately as we started to work together to say, you know, I have some credit card debt that I haven't shared with my, I was afraid it was going to be much larger than the number, and then it was going to be like, oh, my God, we have to. But there's a feeling of, like, guilt and judgment and, yeah, a lot of discomfort. So it's hard. One of us will have more knowledge than the other. I have led a workshop with women just explaining what's a stock and what's a bond and how do you decide how much risk to take in your investments.

And some of the women were clients of mine who said, either, I trust you, so I'm not sure. And then at dinner, after a particular lesson, I said to my husband, you know, they're not even sure how they're invested or what a stock or what a bond is. And my husband looked at me and said, I have no idea how we're invested. I mean, because it is true. You need to divide up the roles within a family. He has no need to really understand investing as long as he relies on me. But it was interesting to me, having again been so involved in markets for so many years, to think that, like, he could care less and he really doesn't want to know.

Lisa:

Right. Well, and so in my story, too, my grandma, she's going to be 94 this year, and she's born in 1930, and Grandpa and her were married 30 years, excuse me, 60 years.

Laura:

Yeah.

Lisa:

And she, she was stay at home for the majority, like, they owned a motel together. At one point, she was working full time doing that, but always support system, right? She was that kind of traditional support housekeeper, et cetera. And Grandpa had a great retirement from the postal service. And then he was the investor, and he was the one with the retirement fund. And so he was the money guy, paid all the bills. Like, she didn't even know where the bills came out of. So when he passed away, I just remember coming home to see Grandma and help out where I could with the aunts that were helping. And, and I said, she's worried.

She was like, I don't, I don't know how to pay my bills. I don't even know what to, what to do to start. And I said, that's something I can help you with. Grandma let me go to grandpa's office and, like, sort through all this. So that was my purpose. Right in that moment. And he had, she was very lucky woman because he had set everything up on auto pay and Bill pay already. He was, you know, ahead of his time.

This was quite a while ago when Bill pay was just starting to come out, like automatic payments out of your checking. But he was always in tune with advances in technology, and so he had all that set up, and it was brilliant. But if he had not, this happens when we lose a partner. And she was set up really well, but she had no idea. She had no idea. And she also had no idea what she'd be able to afford. She knew she'd want to sell her house. She didn't know where she could go.

She didn't know where she would live. It was just so much angst. And I think that's what you're also describing is when it's one thing to just not want to know or worry about it, or maybe that's not what I do in the family, but to at least have a plan and have that conversation. Right. So important.

Laura:

Yeah. I mean, you talk about meeting with a financial advisor that you luckily got through work, but I really, I will not work with a couple with only one of the couple that, I mean, both need to be there for. Like you just said, Lisa, for the peace of mind, if nothing else, the clarity that you get from knowing that your finances are organized, that you're understanding how much is coming in and going out each month, and then how your investments are supporting your goals, it's so important, even if you couldn't repeat it back in detail. But knowing, and frankly, as I've had this firm now since 2016, and seeing how really the value when something happens, like I had a client whose husband unexpectedly passed away and working together, she already had an estate planning attorney. She already had insurance. So we knew exactly who to call right away. And that's when you don't want to be meeting a stranger and trying to get up to speed with your finances when you're in the middle of a crisis.

Lisa:

Yeah, exactly. And when you're legally married, what your partner does financially will affect you. Right. And I think even when you have those accounts separated, you understanding, trying to have those communication lines open, so important because they could be taking out debt or doing things that can affect you legally.

Laura:

Yes. I have someone who just contacted me because their husband has put a couple of hundred thousand of debt that they didn't know about. And just in general, women, things can happen. Your spouse can pass away. Your spouse can, you can end up getting divorced you don't want to be completely in the dark about finances. And I know I'm saying that at the same time that you may be raising children and that's primarily what you're doing, and you're busy and it's hard to take the time. And your husband says, don't worry about it. I've got us covered.

No, you should know what's going on. And there are plenty of books. There's one that I like talking money with your honey. You know, just, yeah, that's good. Have conversations, like you said, pour a glass of wine on a Sunday, early evening, and sit down and look at, you know, look at your bills and say, oh, this is what we're spending money on, and understand it together.

Lisa:

Right. And as much as you can, try to take the emotion out of that conversation in that moment. Right. Because that's one of the biggest problems in relationships, can be the money talk or even how you talk about money. So trying to keep it neutral. I know one thing with modern technology that really helped. I do most of the bill paying in our household and kind of tracking of all that, even though my husband's the one who works in finance. It's so fun for me, but I have a large history of budgeting in my background with my career.

I just kind of naturally do it and want to know, right. I'm that woman that's like, I'm not going to be like grandma. I want to know everything that's going on. And when it comes to. Thank you for the applause. I appreciate it. When it comes to the act of. Okay, how will I even, like, if something happens to me, okay, so it's my husband in reverse.

Situation of like, I need to check on things. If I get something in the mail that says we're going to cancel your account, like, how do I log in to. We just share all of our passwords on. We use LastPass is the name of the program. But even just having access, even if you're not going in and accessing it using like, a modern technology or writing it down somewhere, just having the information so you know where to go. Even if you're not the one keeping up with the day to day, as long as you know you can access it and that it's there, I think that can help, too.

Laura:

Yeah. And I recommend a site ever plans, everplans.com. i think it's a $75 for an annual membership. And it was originally set up so people could put their funeral wishes like this is, you know, but now you can upload all your insurance information, your. Your lastpass login or whatever digital password you use, estate planning documents, registration for your car, and you can invite deputies. So I now have three adult children. I've invited all my children and my husband. And of course, I have to laugh because I will say to my husband when he asked, like, what's the name of our insurance person? I am? And I'll say, go on, everplans.

Everything is. There he goes, oh, I don't remember. Right. You know what? This is set up so that if yesterday, something happens to me, you know, where or accounts or. But if you don't log in, it's not going to be that helpful.

Lisa:

Yeah. So I always print because I know this will happen to, I'm the first to go or something happens to me, or I'm, like, laying in bed like a zombie. I, you know, I want my husband to have access. So I've also told him, like, I've printed off the primary things we need and put it in the safe, you know, so it's like, there's somewhere you can go. And actually, I learned that from my grandpa, too, because in his safe, he had written down logins. Back then, he wasn't using, like, a password account, but he had said, okay, in the case that I pass away first, here's what grandma needs. Now, she wasn't the one doing it. She was grieving.

But we all were able to pick up that paper and go find everything that was needed. So that can also be, like, there just needs to be a place you can start. Right. It needs to be one location. So everplants, that's great to know. I'll go check that one out, too.

Laura:

Yeah. It sounds like your. Your grandpa was an amazing.

Lisa:

Oh, he was great. I know.

Laura:

Passed on an amazing legacy of being organized.

Lisa:

Yes. I'm so glad I got to fly out and experience that because I think that was a huge education for me. And I would encourage listeners, too, like, if you have, you know, your grandparents, your parents, like, initiate these conversations because they usually want to have them about legacy and what you're going to do, but I find that I usually have to instigate it or just ask, like, so what are your plans? Right. I have a great father in law who's very open to talking about it, but a lot of times we'll have to bring it up first or just set an environment where he feels comfortable. So things like that, I think, would be very helpful. Just don't be afraid to talk about money. Right. Laura? I guess that's the biggest takeaway today, is talk about it.

Laura:

Yes. And don't be afraid to acknowledge that there are emotions tied to talking about money. And we grow up with messages when we're younger, and we retain those messages even when our external circumstances change. And I would say that that's part of mindfulness, if you will, of just, like, saying, ah, this makes me anxious. I feel it in my stomach. I get butterflies in my stomach and go ahead and have the conversation anyway. And as you said, just be aware, don't be accusatory, don't make. We're all, we're all trying the best we can.

And I would say to me, one of the most important messages is just being mindful of what's coming in and what's going out each month at the end of the day. Right. Financial literacy. Financial advice is not rocket science. It's like, don't spend more than you earn, which is easy to say and not always so easy to do, especially, you know, I live in a commuting suburb of New York City, one of the most expensive areas in the world to live. And everybody who graduates from college wants to live in the city. You don't want to live with your parents in Westchester County, 30 minutes away. And, you know, so everybody's spending a couple of month to divide a one bedroom apartment into three, you know, putting walls up, and.

And it's very hard to keep to only spending half your paycheck on your needs and be aware of that.

Lisa:

Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure.

Laura:

And make decisions accordingly.

Lisa:

Right. And reach out. Right. So I can help with salary negotiation, talking about money all day when it comes to your job and your salary and benefits. But for you being able to help, maybe it's, you know, client comes to you and says, I need help to figure out how to have that conversation, or I want to be more mindful. Laura, how do I get started? Right. Those are all things you can help people with as well, right?

Laura:

Yes, of course.

Lisa:

Okay, awesome. So how can people get ahold of you, Laura?

Laura:

Well, the name of my firm is true abundance advisors. I named it that because abundance is not just about your money. It's about how you spend your other scarce resources of time and energy. And I believe in maximizing all three. And as you know, it's a balance. And so you can look on my website, and if you want to have a conversation, you can schedule a 30 minutes complimentary phone call on true abundance advisors with an o at the end.com. and you can reach me by email at laura laurebundanceadvisors.com. and I do also have a workbook that's available on my website.

It's unblocking your money blocks. Women in general can have more blocks around money. I see a lot. I happen to think that speaking with someone about your finances is a form of self care. And women are always quick to spend on their kids or I, others. But to actually spend on yourself, to get someone to help you out, relieve your anxiety, help put a plan in place, is not always that easy. So I encourage women to think about the money blocks that are getting in their way.

Lisa:

I love it. Instead of spending money on clothes this month, go get help. Or instead of doing a spa day, get an advisor to help you get started. Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. That it's self care for, and it's really like, it's a health piece, too. Right? It's like your healthcare also. It's longevity and how you can support yourself when you're older as well.

Laura:

Yeah.

Lisa:

Have all those resources coming in with a paycheck.

Laura:

And women, we're gonna, you know, generally we're gonna live longer than our spouses. We're going to have periods of time where we're, you know, primarily doing childcare and won't be making as much money, which will, you know, affect our savings. So, you know, unfortunately, it's important for us to really understand what we're saving so that we can continue to live a life of purpose as we age.

Lisa:

I love it. Thank you so much, Laura. This is a great conversation, and I hope people reach out, and I hope people have a couple takeaways where they can just be mindful and think about money for a few hours today and what are your next steps and what do you need to do? So I really appreciate you being here.

Laura:

My pleasure. Lisa. Thank you for inviting me.